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- IMAGINE archive: collected off of imagine@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
-
- ARCHIVE XIII
- Oct. 6 '91 - Oct. 16 '91
-
- If you have questions or problems with this file, email Marvin Landis
- at marvinl@amber.rc.arizona.edu
-
- note: each message seperated by a '##'
-
- &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
-
- Subject: Re: Solid Cube?
- Date: Sun, 6 Oct 91 13:47:38 PDT
- From: Daryl T. Bartley <dmon@ecst.csuchico.edu>
-
- Correct me if I'm wrong, but you DO get a 'solid cube' by extruding a plane.
- Shouldn't it work just like any other faced object that gets extruded? It fills
- in the sides. Or you could add a primitive tube with 4 points and close the top
- and bottom. Maybe I don't know what you mean by solid.
-
-
- Daryl Bartley
- dmon@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu
- Survivor: AnimeCon '91 staff
- 'Thank you for your hard cooperation'
-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Solid Cube?
- Date: Sun, 6 Oct 91 16:10:03 -0600
- From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <hurtt@tramp.Colorado.EDU>
-
- Correct me if I'm wrong, but you DO get a 'solid cube' by extruding a
- plane. Shouldn't it work just like any other faced object that gets
- extruded? It fills in the sides. Or you could add a primitive tube
- with 4 points and close the top and bottom. Maybe I don't know what you
- mean by solid.
-
-
- Daryl Bartley
- dmon@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu
- Survivor: AnimeCon '91 staff
- 'Thank you for your hard cooperation'
-
- --------------------
-
- Not really. Not a true 'solid' as in having the inside filled. A plane
- that has been extruded is really only a empty box. I think I've found a solution
- to my problem though, but it doesn't involve an actual 'solid'. Look for a new
- pic on hubcap in a few days.
-
- And thanks to everyone for the help!
-
- Chris
-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Solid Cube?
- Date: Mon, 07 Oct 91 10:07:25 EDT
- From: Mark Thompson <mark@westford.ccur.com>
-
- Chris Hurtt writes:
- > How does one actaully make a cube that is solid? I had thought by
- > just extruding a plane I would get a "solid" cube, but in fact it is hollow.
-
- Imagine as well as every other Amiga 3D package I am aware of is based on
- 3D surfaces and they have no concept of volume. You can subdivide your
- cube into increasingly smaller cubes, but no matter what you do, you will
- still always be working with surfaces and not volumes. Volumetric rendering
- which is popular in the scientific visualization realm uses a 3D unit
- called a voxel which is sort of the 3D equivalent to pixels. Theses tiny
- solid cubes actually occupy volume rather than just represent surfaces
- and are the fundemental building block in volumetric rendering. Quite
- often, these voxels are given some degree of transparency so that interior
- voxels can be seen beneath the surface of the exterior ones (quite common
- in medical imaging). While you can make attempts at emulating the appearance
- of voxel based solids in Imagine, it will still always be a hollow surface
- and behave as such. So the question then arises, what are you trying to
- achieve by having a solid cube?
- |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
- | ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER |
- | --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics |
- | ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect |
- | Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance |
- | |
- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Solid Cube?
- Date: Mon, 7 Oct 91 15:56:13 MDT
- From: ridout@bink.plk.af.mil (Brian Ridout)
-
-
- Chris Hurtt writes:
- > How does one actaully make a cube that is solid? I had thought by
- > just extruding a plane I would get a "solid" cube, but in fact it is hollow.
-
- I was wondering somthing similar. I tried to do a glass of water with a
- stiring stick. I wanted to see the refraction like I do in a real glass of
- water. I found that if I made a thick glass that the light refracted around
- the glass and therefore it was black. I finally simulated the effect by making
- the glass a single thickness but made a lop at the top. the water was a smaller
- diameter to make the thickness of the glass. The picture looks good but it
- still does not look like the reall glass of water I compaired it to. oh well.
-
-
- I think I understand how the program views refraction. I assume the ray starts
- off in air (index of 1) and when it hits a surface it does the calculation with
- the index of the surface. Then assumes it is back in air again. I.E. an
- infinitely thin object, plane, whatever.
-
- Right?
-
- Brian Ridout
-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Solid Cube?
- Date: Mon, 7 Oct 91 18:07:49 CDT
- From: Wayne Haufler 283-4160 <haufler@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov>
-
- Brian Ridout (ridout@bink.plk.af.mil) writes:
- ...
- > I think I understand how the program views refraction. I assume the
- > ray starts off in air (index of 1) and when it hits a surface it does
- > the calculation with the index of the surface. Then assumes it is back
- > in air again. I.E. an infinitely thin object, plane, whatever.
- >
- > Right?
-
- Well, from my limited understanding of physics, refraction only matters
- at surface boundaries between materials or media, anyway. Since light
- bends at the boundaries between glass and air, air and water, water and
- glass, or whatever, volumetric representation is (or probably shouldn't
- be) necessary to model light refracting through various materials.
-
- Though you may be right in that the index of refraction of a material
- itself (if I remember right) assumes that the material outside of the
- object is air. So the idea is to model MATERIAL BOUNDARIES, not the
- materials themselves. So how would you model the boundary between
- glass and water? Perhaps with a cylindrical surface, inside of the
- glass, with the index set to the difference between glass and water
- index of refractions, or the glass-to-water index calculated in some way.
-
- It has been too long since College Physics and I have not played much
- with this aspect of Imagine. Can anyone else verify these ideas?
- Thanks.
-
-
- __ Wayne A. Haufler [Christian/SW Engineer/XLib'er/Amigan]
- \\ /\\ /\\ //_ haufler@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov MDSSC - Houston
- \/--\// \//__ Hobby:"Exploring the Use of Computer Graphics and
- // Animations To Support Christian Endeavors"
-
- ##
-
- Subject: AmiExpo Oakland Report
- Date: Mon, 7 Oct 91 15:36:34 PDT
- From: worley@updike.sri.com (Steve Worley)
-
- Well, I spent the weekend (and a day off from work on Friday)
- attending AmiExpo in Oakland. Great fun! I met several members of the
- list, like Todd Landry, Mike Simpson, and Evara Ligue (sorry if I
- mangled your name!). I got a chance to talk lot of well known
- Amigans, like Perry Kivolowicz from ASDG, Steve Gillmor of Impulse,
- Joel Hagen, Harv Laser, Bill Seymor, Joel Hagen, Mike Smythwick, and
- more that I forget. And I met Allen Hastings and Jay Miner (both
- locals) there as well.
-
- Anyway, I want to talk about some of the stuff I saw- this is all with
- a graphics bent, so forgive me if I ignore Dr. T's super-dooper music
- things or the new MicroProse games.
-
- First, the big toys that everyone was flashing was the new graphics
- boards. There are a lot! I carried a pocketful of floppies with
- IFF24s and had them displayed on the different boards to compare
- quality- this was a great idea, because some of the vendors had really
- stacked the deck with the type of images they were showing. A brief
- rundown of the boards that were being shown:
-
-
- The GVP IV24. 768 by 482 DEINTERLACED 24 bit. Very nice, especially
- the PIP. They had a lot of Lou Markoya's stuff being shown on a 1950
- monitor. The deinterlacing was not very apparent for any of the
- images (24 bit tends to have smooth gradients, hence no flicker) but
- I'm sure if you were using it as a 24 bit text display it would really
- show it's power. They had a camera and were doing screen grabs and
- showing the picture-in-picture. A lot of fun.
-
- The Colorburst. Finally saw one! There are big rumors about MAST
- having to drop the product because the designer was miffed about the
- software. I asked, and the guy demoing CB didn't say anything. I mean,
- he just looked at me, and then turned away. Geez! They were selling at
- the Creative Computers mini-mall for $700, I think. The quality of a
- displayed IFF24 was excellent! But the software they were showing was
- really hokey. There IS a paint program, but it didn't have a very good
- feel and didn't respond smoothly. Big bummer. 768 by 482 24 bit.
-
- The Rembrandt. Progressive was showing their pre-production model, and
- fishing for developers. 1K by 1K 24 bit, with a 2K by 2K memory
- buffer. On-card 34020 coprocessor at (40?) Mhz, and (something)82 math
- coprocessor. The boards display was slick, but not as lively as any of
- the other boards- it might have been the monitor, but the images were
- dim with too little contrast. Anyway, this board's coprocessor can
- render and do math computations in parallel with the Amiga- a demo
- showed a mandelbrot set being rendered real time with the A3000's
- 68040 (!), then with the board's processor. It was a tie. With more
- coprocessors, (up to 4), the board would speed up it's calculation
- that much more. Pretty slick! The cool part was blitting around a 320
- by 200 sub-image at 30fps- not too shabby! Another fun trick was
- running an anim with the 040 at full speed, while simultaneously
- rendering stuff on the Rembrandt. Anyway, they are working on a paint
- program and other software, but in 6 months this could be The Thing.
- List is 4K. Ouch.
-
- Firecracker 24. Impulse wasn't there, but many people were using them.
- 1K by 482 resolution, 24 bit. The Virtual Reality Labs were showing
- the new verson of Vista Pro (amazing!) with these boards, and there
- were startled gasps of amazement as people walked by. These images and
- the output were just beautiful! Perry Kivolowicz also used one for a
- talk on using the Amiga as an imaging workstation, and it was pretty
- slick. (it went through a genlock and out to a video projector). He
- even used ADPro to drive it. :-) Anyway, the quality is very
- comperable to Colorbursts- very clean colors, a bright and lively
- feel. The FC24 is sharper, though, which gives it a really nice edge
- for raytraces. For scanned images, you might not be able to tell. The
- FC24 paintbox is functional, and real-time, but not as nice as the
- DCTV paintbox. One COOL feature of the FC24 paint (Light 24) is the
- ability to LOAD IMAGINE OBJECTS AND RENDER THEM DIRECTLY ONTO AN
- IMAGE. This is GREAT fun! You load an object, and manipulate its
- orientation, size, and position on the image. (in wireframe). Then you
- punch a button, and it renders a scanline version of the object (with
- world reflection mapping) Also, there is nice Firecracker support in
- ADPro, though I bet the newest version of ADPro will support many of
- the others. Street price of the FC24 is something like $860.
-
- Digital Creations had a very popular booth, showing off DCTV. I bought
- one, finally! [There goes the piggy bank.] The DCTV outputs composite
- video- it's not 24 bit. But the output is terrific! It can't compete
- with the sharpness of any of the 24 bit boards, but I preferred the
- image quality to a lot of the stuff being shown on the Rembrandt. The
- neat part is you can animate the DCTV at whatever speed you can
- animate hires, typically 10 fps, faster if you take a cut in image
- quality. The paint program is top notch. They were showing off the new
- version of the software, (1.1??) with undo, and a few more features.
- [sorry, I don't know exactly]. They will ship the software in a few
- weeks, $15 upgrade for current DCTV owners. I also made them promise
- they would make a DCTV loader for their DCTV.library, and to make sure
- ASDG got it. (they only had a saver, before). Cost is $400, street.
-
- Fun anecdote setting up my DCTV, it turns out my CABLE TV had AC power
- coming in on it's grounded shield (!!!!) , and my VCR and TV had been
- operating on this signal for months by floating over the supposedly
- constant ground. I never knew this until I was about to hook up my
- grounded DCTV/A3000 to my VCR, and ZZZAAAPP.. right though my body.
- Yow! No damage (to me or the hardware), but I plan to really nail the
- cable company. I want to get a junk VCR and melt the inside with a
- blowtorch just to see the cable guy's reactions... I have NO IDEA how or
- why it's like that and I'm just surprised my TV and VCR actually worked.
-
- Newtek was there and showed off the Toaster. Of course. More later,
- epecially on the new Toaster 2.0 release this month. The Toaster
- framebuffer is 24 bit internally, but it has NTSC composite output.
- This decreases the sharpness considerably, but if you're going to
- video anyway, it's really good. (though not as good as the IV24 with
- S-video AND RGB out). Still, the Colorburst, FC24, Rembrandt and IV24
- all beat the toaster output for sharpness and quality. Interestingly
- enough, many times it is REALLY tough to tell a DCTV from a Toaster
- display.
-
- Last board I saw was the Digital Micronics 8 bit board. This board
- also has a 34020 coprocessor like the Rembrandt. The output is 1280 by
- 1024, 8 bit, and is pretty slick. Many detailed images were stunning,
- but it started to lose when I asked them to display some very colorful
- images. (it only has 256 colors..) It's really meant for UNIX and
- hi-res text, and performs admirably in this manner. Another company
- was using the board for it's Postscript-output presentation software,
- and the quality was terrific. This board isn't really meant as much
- for images as the 24 bit boards, but it is a great pinch-hitter. Price
- is >$1,000, I don't know exactly.
-
- I never got a chance to see HAM-E. Black Belt was not at the show, and
- nobody was using one. Oh well.
-
- Well, that's it for display hardware. If I was asked to recommend one,
- I would say first get a DCTV ($400). It has animation support, a
- decent price, and great software. If you wanted great quality, go for
- the Firecracker 24. It's quality is stunning, and the price is
- reasonable. Colorburst is a good option for 500 and 1000 owners who
- can't use the plug in FC24, but the extra price of the FC24 ($860 vs
- $700) is well worth the investment. If you can afford both the DCTV
- and the FC24, you have a dream setup. This is all IMHO. :-)
-
- Please, no flames, especially about the Toaster output quality. It is
- excellent, but not sharp! Still, if/when a 3000 version comes out, I'll
- probably get one.
-
- Going on, there were four companies showing 040 boards, two for the
- 3000. The progressive A3000 040 board was $1600, and was marginally
- (5%) faster than the GVP 040 board. ( Don't know the cost of the GVP).
- I didn't compare 2000 versions, but the Mega-Midget-Racer guys were
- showing them off, though I'm not sure if they were selling. (GVP
- wasn't, Progressive was. I even held Perry Kivolowitz's A3000
- accelerator from Progressive, being careful not to drool directly on
- the packaging.) The Fusion-40 from RCS (A2000 only) was also being
- demoed and sold.
-
- More 3D.
-
- Real-3D had a booth and was pushing their program. They had the latest
- Amigaworld open to the Impulse Imagine ad, and were comparing those
- images to versions done in Real-3D. The images they showed were pretty
- slick, but the salesman didn't want to give me a hands-on demo of the
- modeller and such- he just wanted to show the pictures. Considering
- they have a demo version of the software out on the BBSs and FTP site,
- my guess is that the guy I talked to just didn't know how to use it.
- The boolean operations do look keen, though, but they need some help
- with their textures and modelling. Also, tinted glass and non-white
- mirrors would be fun.
-
- YANRT. Yet another new ray tracer was announced at the Expo, this
- one a low-end $100 script-based ray tracer called RayDance, from
- Radiance Software. [Nothing to do with Mark Thompson!]
- Some VERY interesting features like brush maps that follow morphing
- objects. [Where have I heard that before?] I'll type in the press
- release sometime this week. Release is sometime this month. It
- probably won't be immediate competion in the Lightwave/Imagine battle,
- but it might fill a low-end niche. [First impression, I sure could be
- wrong]
-
- The big 3D support software this year seems to be packages of
- digitized surfaces like brick and wood. Two companies were selling
- these at the Expo, Texture City, and MicroSearch (the ChromaKey guys).
- I'll post some images using the Microsearch textures and write more
- about them later when I get a chance to play with them more, but they
- were great! They have three texture volumes: Stone, Tiles, and Wood,
- selling for $50 a pop, $30 on the street. The president of Microsearch
- told me that he would make one image on each package freely
- distributable- I'll upload them. Anyway, they are great packages, and
- worth the money. Nicolas Alwin made some great Imagine renderings with
- them.
-
- The other set of images was from Texture City. This is a really
- professional package, and they were trying to sell to the high-end
- video buffs as backgrounds for titles and framestores as well as to the
- 3D rendering crowd. They had an incredible selection of textures,
- something like 200 images!! The quality of the images they showed was
- impeccable. But the cost was absolutely outrageous: they wanted $350
- for 40 images (I'll check on the exact number, but roughly 40).
- Ouch!!! I couldn't reccomend these to the casual user unless you had a
- lot of cash or absolutely needed top quality. For that kind of money
- you could buy a scanner of your own.
-
- I met Victor Osaka of the Turbo SIG (a paper 3D newsletter), and
- talked to him for a while. He was working in the Texture City booth,
- and was selling copies of his newsletter. He wasn't overly interested
- in talking about rendering, though, and looked more like he just
- wanted to get out of the Expo and go home. By Sunday, most dealers
- were like that. :-)
-
- Sunrize was showing off it's new sound boards- a 12 bit mono
- sampler/playback board and the stereo 16 bit version. These things
- were great, especially the 12 bit! The quality is VASTLY superior to 8
- bit, and Sunrize is trying to sell them for video sound editing. They
- are perfect for this- and they're cheap! (on the order of $450). They
- even have SMPTE time code for syncing everything, and some decent
- support software. (much like Audiomaster) The 16 bit sampler was
- great, too, but > 1K in price.
-
- Axiom (?) software was showing off the newest version of Pixel 3D 2.0.
- This version now includes object conversion, BEVELING OF EXTRUSIONS,
- and some really fun other tools like intensity->height mapping. I
- picked up a copy, I'll post a long description and mini-review of it
- as soon as I have a chance to play with it. It was selling for $70
- street price. First impression: Interchange is a dead product unless
- their new version is absolutely top-notch.
-
- Some of the seminars were interesting. Steve Gillmor showed off his
- pet product, Foundation, on a multimedia panel. Perry Kivolowicz did
- NOT show off ADPro 2.0, much to my disappointment. (JPEG will save us
- from out 24 bit storage problems!) I sat next to Kiki Stockhammer for
- the Toaster 2.0 keynote, and has to endure the most vile perfume for
- an hour and a half....
-
- At the Toaster 2.0 unveiling, they showed most of the new features.
- (the 2.0 is a software, NOT a hardware update. $100 sometime this
- month) Genlock control from workbench and two new panels of
- transitions were the big additions to the main software. The Toaster
- framestore is now compressed for faster loading. [I always thought it
- was stored UNcompressed for faster loading!]
-
- Lightwave 2.0 has a slew of new features, though, and Allen Hastings
- took most of the keynote time to show them off.
-
- Most of the Lightwave features have been added to it's modeller. Here
- is a list, from memory, that covers most of them. [I know I'll miss
- quite a few, both because he never talked about them and because I've
- forgotten.
-
- Skinning between cross-sections
- Magnetism point-dragging
- Twist, shear, scaling, bending of objects or points of objects
- [bending was really cool]
- Ability to load attributes from a library on disk
- Cylindrical and spherical bump (altitude) mapping
- A better file requestor (with a parent button)
-
- In the layout/renderer:
-
- A couple of new textures, including "underwater"
- New shadings for moons/planets/etc [Mark Thompson told us about this]
- Morphing now allows multiple morph targets, so an object could go from
- version 1 to version 2 to version 3 of an object.
- More control of the envelope splines, allowing kinks and control of
- overshoots
- Faster rendering overall.
- Super-lo-res for quick rendering (1/2 lores?) and one super-hi-res
- (2K by 1K????) for magazine covers, etc.
-
- ----------------
-
- That's my quick report on the show. Anyway, more later on the FC24,
- Pixel 3D, and the Microsearch textures.
-
-
- -Steve
-
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Steve Worley spworley@athena.mit.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Solid Cube?
- Date: Mon, 7 Oct 91 18:23:01 CDT
- From: Wayne Haufler 283-4160 <haufler@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov>
-
- I wrote:
- > Well, from my limited understanding of physics, refraction only matters
- > at surface boundaries between materials or media, anyway. Since light
- > bends at the boundaries between glass and air, air and water, water and
- > glass, or whatever, volumetric representation is (or probably shouldn't
- ^ NOT
- > be) necessary to model light refracting through various materials.
-
- OOPS! Note correction above.
-
- Wayne A. Haufler
-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Solid Cube?
- Date: Mon, 7 Oct 91 20:47:13 -0600
- From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <hurtt@tramp.Colorado.EDU>
-
- Well, from my limited understanding of physics, refraction only matters
- at surface boundaries between materials or media, anyway. Since light
- bends at the boundaries between glass and air, air and water, water and
- glass, or whatever, volumetric representation is (or probably shouldn't
- be) necessary to model light refracting through various materials.
-
- Though you may be right in that the index of refraction of a material
- itself (if I remember right) assumes that the material outside of the
- object is air. So the idea is to model MATERIAL BOUNDARIES, not the
- materials themselves. So how would you model the boundary between
- glass and water? Perhaps with a cylindrical surface, inside of the
- glass, with the index set to the difference between glass and water
- index of refractions, or the glass-to-water index calculated in some
- way.
-
- It has been too long since College Physics and I have not played much
- with this aspect of Imagine. Can anyone else verify these ideas?
- Thanks.
- ----------------
-
- Hey Wayne,
- This all sounds well & good too me. Indeed light only bends at the
- boundries of two different media. I have been wondering how to get a bottle of
- water to actually look like one. I did a trace of 3 bottles, one with nothing
- in it, just the glass bottle, another with the glass bottle & a perfectly
- fitting cylinder of water inside it, and one that had the inner cylinder
- made of glass, instead of water. I could post the picture if there is
- interest to hubcap for you to see for yourselfs. The conclusion has been
- though that the glass within glass looked the best.
- I'll have to try out your idea of making the water the difference
- between glass & water --> .34
-
- Chris
-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Square Checks!
- Date: Mon, 07 Oct 91 21:16:19 CDT
- From: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Michael Linton)
-
- Is there anyway to get the check texture to actually make square checks on a
- spherical shape? I'm tring to get the checks to go around a 'bullet shape'.
- Any help would be appreciated.
-
- Thanks.
-
-
- --- (Michael Linton) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
- E-mail: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
- system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Textures
- Date: Tue, 8 Oct 91 4:11:46 PDT
- From: tucker@cs.unr.edu (Aaron Tucker)
-
- GUESS WHAT? I have good news and I have bad news. The good news
- is that I have found a ton of textures. The bad news is that they are in
- no format that I can recognize.
-
- The ftp address: 128.163.128.6
- Directory: Textures
- Subdirectories: Tape1, Tape2, and Tape3
-
- SOMEONE! Please convert them to 24bit IFF. If I had to hazard a guess as to
- the remotely possible file type and bitplanes...I would say the MAC PICT
- format in 2 colors, according to Rasterlink..the only file type it did not
- choke on. Well, there you have it. Programmers ahead!
-
-
- Juan Trevino
- tucker@mammoth.cs.unr.edu
-
- O KEY DOUGH KEY?
-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: coke bottles
- Date: Tue, 8 Oct 91 11:49:00 GMT-0500
- From: Scott Matthew Krehbiel <scottk@hoggar.eng.umd.edu>
-
- Have you tried making the bottle with an inner surface? I don't know
- if it's possible to make an object with a negative refraction value, but
- if you had a solid coke bottle with a pocket of air inside, you'd need
- to give the air a negative refraction value to compensate for the
- change of media. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.
-
- A different approach would be to make the air pocket inside out, so
- that as the light enters the pocket, it thinks it's leaving. Is
- this possible?
-
- I guess the most reliable approach, though the most tedious, would be to
- create the bottle with an inner surface ( spin a curved 'U' shape around
- a distant point ) and then create the inside shape to exactly fit. Then
- the light would get the effect of leaving the glass before entering the
- air/water/diamond/whatever pocket.
-
- by the way, the reason for the inside out shape, that I mentioned earlier,
- would be to have the refraction value be the difference between the glass
- and water, or whatever.
-
- just a couple suggestions from a 68000 user who'd like to see the results
- before next year...
-
- -scott@hoggar.eng.umd.edu
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Square Checks!
- Date: Tue, 8 Oct 91 13:35:36 -0600
- From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <hurtt@tramp.Colorado.EDU>
-
- Is there anyway to get the check texture to actually make square checks
- on a spherical shape? I'm tring to get the checks to go around a
- 'bullet shape'. Any help would be appreciated.
-
- Thanks.
-
-
- -----------------------------------
- If I understand you correctly what you might want to do is a wrap instead
- of a texture. Not sure how well it will tuck the corners with checks though.
-
- Chris
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: AmiExpo Oakland Report
- Date: Tue, 08 Oct 91 16:41:35 EDT
- From: Mark Thompson <mark@westford.ccur.com>
-
- Steve Worley writes:
- > Axiom (?) software was showing off the newest version of Pixel 3D 2.0.
- > First impression: Interchange is a dead product unless
- > their new version is absolutely top-notch.
-
- Steve or anyone using Pixel 3D 2.0, I haven't received my 2.0 update yet
- so I was wondering how the object conversion in Pixel 3D 2.0 compared to
- InterChange. Does it do as good of job and if so, what makes it better.
- I am definately looking forward to the Beveling feature!
-
- Side note, rev 2 of my objects converted from LightWave to Imagine are
- now on hubcap (have been for several days).
-
- > Lightwave 2.0 has a slew of new features.
- > Most of the Lightwave features have been added to it's modeller. Here
- > is a list, from memory, that covers most of them. [I know I'll miss
- > quite a few, both because he never talked about them and because I've
- > forgotten.
-
- The new features list would cover many pages at this point but the very latest
- ones that Steve didn't mention is the addition of spline curves in the modeler.
- %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
- % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER %
- % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics %
- % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect %
- % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance %
- % %
- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Another Fun Project
- Date: Tue, 8 Oct 91 15:25:34 -0600
- From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <hurtt@tramp.Colorado.EDU>
-
- Ok folks, as we all know Halloween is coming up and here is a fun
- little animation project you might consider doing! This idea comes from back
- when I had my Vic 20 with (wow!) a Super Expander! (8K and awesome graphics :)
- There was a program in I think Power Play that I typed in. What it did was
- draw a jacko-latern on your screen and have it leviate around with a few
- lightning flashes evrey now and then. I put this in my window Halloween instead
- of the traditionally messy (but also fun) pumpkin. It was a hit.
- So I though, hey! What a perfect project for Imagine with it's powerful
- slice ability! To make your own there's basically two approaches depending on
- your RAM situation.
- Get in the forms editor. Make a new form with 30 points, 15 slices, a
- most important a X-Y Cross section. Now goto the top view and drag every 3rd
- point back towards the center a little bit. Make 'em varied in depth and
- direction for a not so perfect looking pumpkin
- You should now have 20 'wedges' around the pumpkin. They'll be fairly
- blockish looking, but don't worry, Phong will come to the rescue. If this doesnt
- sound right, then you probably mis-understood 'drag every 3rd point'.
- Seal up the top and bottom of your pumpkin in either the front or right
- view by having the top two and bottom two points snapped to the nearest
- vertex with a grid of spacing 100. I think you know what I mean, if it doesn't
- sound that clear to you.
- Save your very nice, but fairly complex pumpkin. Find by requestor says
- 900 points, 2580 edges, 1680 faces, so you might try making less points & slices
- when you start your form.
- Now you'd think it's just a simple process now of loading it up in the
- detail editor and slicing out your jacko-latern's features. Not so, this is
- the source of my recent questions about true solids in Imagine. If you punch
- out some eyes & a mouth now, your pumpkin will look like it's made out of paper.
- The actual walls of the pumpkin are only an edge thick & thus look strange when
- rendered, the pumpkin is only a shell.
- I had though I could simply drop the pumpkin in a box, slice it. Drop a
- smaller scaled original pumpkin inside the now solid pumpkin and thereby make
- a pumpkin with thickness. Not so! But never fear, a recent SAGA meeting provided
- me a solution from the great Imagineers Ed Chadez & Don Witaker. Thanks guys!
- To give the illusion of thickness to your Pumpkin heres what you need
- to do. Note: this will add even more complexity to your pumpkin so if you
- are low on RAM you might want to just live with a 'thin' jackolatern. Make a
- copy of your pumpkin and paste it in the same area (imagine will do this auto
- matically). Then slighty scale one of the pumpkins down, the smaller the thicker
- your pumpkin. At this point your might want to set the attributes on your
- pumpkin since you'll need to join the two pieces and the inside of a pumpkin
- tends to be a much lighter orange than the outside. Here's what I used:
-
- Color 201 128 0 Reflect, Filter, Specular 31 8 0, Dithering 255
- Hardness 218, Roughness 0, Shininess 0
-
- With the inside being the same except the Color 241 168 91 and
- Specular 0 0 0
-
- Of course, feel free to alter these as you like. If you plan on only
- doing a still than throw in a Roughness of about 11. Note: don't use roughness
- if you plan to animate your pumpkin unless you want the well document 'crawling
- ants' effect! Use a bump map on your outer portion of the pumpkin, a light spray
- of different grays on white with DPaint should do the trick. Read Steve Worley's
- excellent tutorials for more info on maps in general.
-
- Now that you've set up the to portions of the pumpkin, join 'em
- together. You should have a horendously complex object now.
- Finally we are ready for slicing! Make your eyes, nose, mouth whatever
- in whatever way you feel. Once again if you've got the RAM draw something
- fairly grimicing in Dpaint and import it with either Pixel 3-D or Imagines own.
- Having it filles with faces is not important. Extrude your eye for example and
- place it where you want on the pumpkin. Make sure that your extruded eye only
- goes out one side, unless that is the effect you want. Nothing worse than a
- two-faced jack-o-latern. Slice the pumpkin and the eye. After an amazing amount
- of time ungroup your parts. Be sure to discard the right pieces! What you
- want to save is of course the pumpkin, and the 'wall' that has been made
- between your eye hole and the inner & outer shells of the pumpkin. This will
- give you that thickness we've been after through all this!
- Also, note your two inner & outer 'shells' we now be apart and we have
- to be rejoined for the other eye, mouth, etc. Plus don't forget to join the
- new 'wall' around the eye hole to your whole pumpkin.
-
- As you will see, this makes for a very complex and large object given
- what little you are really doing. If you are low on RAM these are my
- suggestions.
- Make the original form with less pts & slices.
- Don't use a bump map at all with your pumpkin. Just let it be smooth.
- Don't have a inner and outer wall for 'thickness'. Settle for a thin
- pumpkin.
- Don't add other frills like a color map with color imperfections &
- gashes that pumpkins have. Just a simple stalk, or none at all.
- Make your eyes, mouth, etc, simple shapes like a traditional pumpkin.
-
- Also, you might consider only rendering in scanline. I have a 68000,
- and have been using only scanline and feel the output is good enough for my
- needs.
-
- Please excuse any errors in this. I may have the attributes part messed
- up, I'm not sure. To be sure, reset everything before you do you last joining
- after your last slicing. I think I had my mouth set to white from Pixel 3-D
- and thus had white faces around where I had sliced into the pumpkin.
- Also, squash & stretch your pumpkin around when you are done. Who wants
- a perfect sphere for a pumpkin? For those of you who want to get right to the
- slashing & hacking I'll upload 2 pumpkins to hubcap. One will be have less pts
- than the other in it. I'm not sure how much of a problem RAM will be though,
- I have 3 megs, and have only ran out when trying to slice very complex eyes
- into the 2 layered pumpkin....
-
- Happy rendering everyone! ps- if anyone has a good idea for a candle
- flame let me know!
-
- Chris
-
- pss- I may also try this out in Real 3-D, let you all know it goes...
-
- { Chris Hurtt | Computer Science | This Space }
- { hurtt@tramp.colorado.edu | Applications in | For Rent }
- { churtt@nyx.cs.du.edu | Fine Arts Major | (303)-466-9259 }
- { !kessener!burner!churtt | CU - Boulder | PEACE! }
-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Textures
- Date: Tue, 08 Oct 91 19:36:31 EDT
- From: Mark Thompson <mark@westford.ccur.com>
-
- > I have found a ton of textures. The bad news is that they are in
- > no format that I can recognize.
-
- The reason you could not recognize their format was because they are in
- no standard format. They are raw 8bit greymaps some organized as 512x512
- and others are 1024x1024. You can convert them to the pbmplus PGM format by
- simply attaching a couple lines to the top of the file as in:
-
- P5
- 512 512
- 255
-
- for the 512x512 images and
-
- P5
- 1024 1024
- 255
-
- for the 1024 1024 images.
- You can then view them with xv or convert them to something else with
- pbmplus. I took a look at the first four in the Tape1 directory and they
- appear to be scanned right out of the "Textures" book I mentioned a
- few months back. The first four were grass, tree bark, straw, and cloth.
- Have fun.
- |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
- | ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER |
- | --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics |
- | ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect |
- | Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance |
- | |
- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Square Checks!
- Date: Tue, 08 Oct 91 19:24:08 CDT
- From: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Michael Linton)
-
- echadez@carl.org (Edward Chadez) writes:
-
- > Michael,
- >
- > The textures don't really work well with spherical objects...from my use
- > of them.
- >
- > However, you CAN build your own IFF-MAP texture and wrap it around the
- > object. It would be nice to be able to preform the same stunt with
- > textures....
- >
- > Edward Chadez
- > -Amiga3000-
- >
- I usually use a checks brush that I draw in Dpaint. I just wanted to know
- if it was at all possible to do it with the checks. Thanks.
-
-
-
- --- (Michael Linton) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
- E-mail: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
- system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Sort Problem
- Date: Tue, 8 Oct 91 18:41:24 PDT
- From: RayTrace@cup.portal.com
-
- Well, I'm new to this mailing list first of all and now my problem.
- I took a disk and took a 45 degree section of it for the corner of some
- 2d object. I have just the edges and I add 2 lines and flip the disk to
- create a bottom edge. (I'm making a path for an E without the middle bar).
- Now, I select all the points in order (I knew that from Silver) and selected
- SORT. So I take another disk and extrude it along that path. Well, it looks
- like I didn't sort it at all! So I call Portal (that's what I'm using now BTW
- and go to the Impulse help area, if thats what you want to call it, and Steve
- Worley suggested that I try it with sorting the edges. That changed it a l
- but it starts at the 2nd point and goes on for a few points just fine and then
- CHAOS! I read the manual and had no luck. So I figure now that I belong to
- this why not try it out! HELP! I also have a few other problems, which I
- will be asking when I get some time to type them in. One major one is 24 bit
- brushes, they simply just come out with what seems to be a random palette! No
- matter how small or big. Steve Worley also gave me a few suggestions on this
- one too. And also global reflectance maps don't work at all!! And also I get
- some weird freeze ups of the whole system on mouse clicks once in a while.
- I've tryed everything!! I have an A500, 68000, KS 1.2, 512K Agnus, 3 megs tot
- Hard Drive. I've even tried booting from a simple WB disk! I really need the
- 24 bit maps to work!! And that freezing up is really anoying.
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Error on Fun Project
- Date: Tue, 8 Oct 91 22:09:27 -0600
- From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <hurtt@tramp.Colorado.EDU>
-
- I may have messed up the inital settings for the form. Here it is
- again in case I did:
-
- # of Points 60
- # of Slices 15
- X-Y Cross Section
-
- Indeed, I think I did. Sorry!
-
- Chris
- hurtt@tramp.colorado.edu
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Solid Cube?
- Date: Wed, 09 Oct 91 09:38:07 EDT
- From: Mark Thompson <mark@westford.ccur.com>
-
- HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL writes:
- > With a solid cube I was hoping to be able to drop things inside of it
- > and do a Slice. Then I'd have a mold of it, plus a slightly smaller 'solid'
- > copy.
-
- No problem, just create a half cube with the 'inside' surface fully
- tesselated with polygons (for good slice detail) and slice half your object
- into it. If it is symetrical, create a mirror duplicate for the other half
- of the mold. Otherwise, repeat with the other half of the object. Finally,
- shink the original object slightly to fit into the 'mold' halves snuggly.
- |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
- | ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER |
- | --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics |
- | ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect |
- | Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance |
- | |
- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-
- ##
-
- Subject: lowres animation
- Date: Wed, 9 Oct 91 13:05:29 EST
- From: rtaraz@wpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz)
-
- I was trying to make a little animation using lowres in scanline mode.
- I had only 8 frames.
- so I selected them all and pushed generate. everything went fine, of course
- then when I pushed make(movie) and imagine made the movie for me.
-
- the problem is that the palette for each frame is different. So when you
- run the animfile, using DP4, the colors keep changing. How do you
- tell imagine to use the same palette for all frames?
-
- Does this problem happen in ham too?
-
- rtaraz@wpi.wpi.edu
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Genlock objects
- Date: Tue, 8 Oct 91 10:30:16 EDT
- From: cbmtor!caleb@uunet.UU.NET (Caleb J. Howard (Tech Support))
-
- >
- > Maybe I don't understand you, but it sounds like you are attempting to
- > composite a translucent object over genlocked video. First off, without
- > an alpha channel, this cannot be done. Second, refracting a black background
- > though a crystal object is a pointless operation. If both these points
- > are obvious to you, then maybe you could better explain what you are trying
- > to accomplish.
-
- Hi there. I knew these things, so I suppose I was not clear. (Not too
- suprizing given my state of mind at the time). What I want to do is render
- my crystal letters not with live video showing through. As you say, that
- requires an alpha channel. I want a generic background of, say the Imagine
- sky, or any other Imagine objects for that matter to show through the letters,
- BUT NOT TO SHOW AROUND THEM. This seems to me to be exactly what genlock
- objects should do. I should be able to, say, define a green sky, turn on
- the genlock sky attribute and have the sky refracted through the letters, but
- NOT have the sky visible directly. I should have crystal letters with green
- sky showing through them on a black background. A black background that I
- may overlay live video onto. I should, by this, be able to see my crystal
- letters with green sky refracting through them on a live video background.
- I fact, this is exactly what happens... UNTIL I render to a 24 bit image.
- That is, when I test render to 320x200 HAM, it works exactly as I hoped it
- would. As soon as I switch my output to 24 bit (IFF or Imagine format), the
- genlock sky (or any other genlock objects) lose their genlock attribute, and
- are rendered normally. Having experimented with this further, I find that the
- genlock attribute of the 24 bit images appear correctly when I click on the
- 'show' button in the project screen. When I do this, Imagine takes the 24 bit
- image that it has rendered, and displays a HAM approximation on the Amiga
- screen WITH THE GENLOCK ATTRIBUTE FUNCTIONING. The same image, output to the
- Firecracker, ignores the genlock attribute. This seems to me to be the result
- of some programmer's reasoning that genlock objects are not useful in the
- context of 24 bit images.
- Earlier postings of a similar nature suggest that Scanline rendering be used
- but this yeilded no change for me.
- Actually, I just want these crystal letters to:
- a) appear on a black background so that they may be genlocked.
- b) not be black showing through crystal on a black background
-
- The other question that I had was this: Is Imagine clever enough to use
- colour zero ONLY for genlock objects, or will it use colour zero to render
- a dark shadow (and thus negate its usefulness with a genlock).
-
- Thank you.
-
- While I have the limelight, I wish to add my thanks to Steve Worley for the
- inception and maintenance of this newsletter. I have been a member from the
- beginning, and have found it an immense catalyst in my own shift from utter
- neophyte to paid professional. (yup! I gotta job :-). This would not have
- been remotely possible were it not for this marvellous medium of communication,
- and the willingness and vision of the members of this group who can see the
- benefit of free discourse unhindered by such archaic notions as 'competitive
- edge'. Thank you Steve, and everybody. This is great.
- -caleb
-
-
- ##
-
- Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 15:42 CDT
- From: cbnewsd!ihlpf!rcj1@att.att.com
-
- I've heard that NewTek has GIVEN (like for free) a Toaster/A2000 to the
- graphic artist on ST:TNG!!! Supposedly he uses a MAac for some stuff, but
- he said to keep an eye out for Toaster graphics on ST:TNG some time soon.
-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Toasters for all
- Date: Tue, 01 Oct 91 12:35:07 EDT
- From: spworley@Athena.MIT.EDU
-
- Allen Price writes:
-
- >P.S. 60 more Toasters? That makes like 110, now? Perhaps Steve W. can
- >sweet-talk NewTek into giving each member on this list one each. We deserve
- >it, no? Besides, WE'D BE USING IT ON ITS' NATIVE CPU!!!!!!!!
-
- Ha... I wouldn't mind sweet-talking NewTek for just one for myself!
-
- -Steve
-
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Steve Worley spworley@athena.mit.edu
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Genlock objects
- Date: Wed, 9 Oct 91 14:41 EDT
- From: "Marc Rifkin" <R38@PSUVM.MIT.EDU>
-
- In-Reply-To: cbmtor!caleb AT uunet.UU.NET -- Tue, 8 Oct 91 10:30:16 EDT
-
- A suggestion to the proposed problem of the GENLOCK option not working in 24
- bit mode: Color the objects with a brush or texture map of the sky you wish to
- have, and render the image with a black sky (in the Global setting).
-
- You could use the linear texture to make the necessary gradations or draw it
- in DPaint, Light24 or even just render a sky with no objects and use the
- resulting image as a brush.
-
- On another issue, why would I have trouble mapping a brush of rocks and
- features I drew in dpaint onto a mountanous terrain in Imagine? The
- brush will not appear no how I position or orient it.
-
- Marc Rifkin
- Integrative Technologies Lab, Penn State University
- 5F Mitchell Building, University Park, PA 16802
- 814-863-8062 or for you normal people, r38@psuvm.psu.edu
- "Hasta, la etc."
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Rooms Project??
- Date: Wed, 2 Oct 91 19:19:40 EDT
- From: alan@picasso.umbc.edu (Alan Price)
-
- Colin,
-
- Your point well taken. When the idea first came about on the list, that
- was the other option presented. I opted to get the project rolling after
- much debate by going with the "you make your own room" method, because I
- just couldn't imagine creating a floorplan that didn't accomodate all the
- possible rooms that everyone may dream up. (Turkish baths, atriums,
- green-houses, or whatever.) In fact, at one point, Steve W. said he would
- make a go at the floorplan and then wrote back saying, "What should I
- include in it?"! So why not just have everyone design their own room?
- As I wrote in my proposal outline, I was more than willing to go to the
- effort of "squeezing" things around to make everything fit.
- (It's almost a relief that no one did submit anything, I've got a lot
- of personal projects going on right now - but if things DO come about,
- I'll still be ready.)
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Imagine 2.0!
- Date: Wed, 09 Oct 91 15:20:55 CDT
- From: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Michael Linton)
-
- I just recived my first copy of the Imagine Gazzette. And in it was some
- rather interesting news about Imagine 2.0. I don't know if anyone has posted
- a message about this yet, but I say it anyway. Impulse is making a new product
- the name has not been chosen yet. Basicly it is Imagine 2.0, it will be out
- very soon, as they put it. It will retail for $ 500.00! It will come with
- more power, and more capabilities and a VERY COMPREHENSIVE USERS GUIDE! It
- should be out around christmas. The upgrade price has not yet been confired,
- but it looks like the upgrade price will be around $ 100.00. Also if you
- are really into Imagine, they have t-shirts for $ 10.00, probably with that
- title picture when you load up the program.
-
-
- --- (Michael Linton) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
- E-mail: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
- system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Imagine 2.0!
- Date: Wed, 9 Oct 91 17:50:05 PDT
- From: jcheng%mars@calstatela.edu (Action Jackson)
-
- > but it looks like the upgrade price will be around $ 100.00. Also if you
- > are really into Imagine, they have t-shirts for $ 10.00, probably with that
- > title picture when you load up the program.
-
- Yuck! No thanks! I cringe everytime I load up Imagine and that horrible
- title picture shows up... I hope the next software release will not have
- that!!
-
- -JC-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: AmiExpo Oakland Report
- Date: Wed, 9 Oct 91 17:51:32 PDT
- From: jcheng%mars@calstatela.edu (Action Jackson)
-
- Mark Thompson writes:
- > Steve or anyone using Pixel 3D 2.0, I haven't received my 2.0 update yet
- > so I was wondering how the object conversion in Pixel 3D 2.0 compared to
- > InterChange. Does it do as good of job and if so, what makes it better.
- > I am definately looking forward to the Beveling feature!
-
- I'm not up to date with Interchange, but if Interchange still uses those
- modules thingy's I'd say Pixel 3D 2.0 blows Interchange away.. for the
- time being...that is... The interface is hot... just like LW's layout
- editor... but with added solid color/shading and hidden line wireframe.
-
- It does auto-triangle-reduction (any connected triangles sharing one plane
- are polygonized) and auto-backface-culling (delete's polygons facing inside
- resulting in 1/2 reduction in # of polygons). This is a great tool for
- Sculpt Modelers who uses LightWave for shading. I bought the package right
- away after seeing this demonstrated. It has a slew of other data reduction
- tools that I haven't gotten a chance to try yet.
-
- The software will save out to:
- LightWave VideoScape
- Imagine Sculpt 4D
- TurboSilver 3D Professional
- AutoCAD DXF
- It will figure out what file format the object is and load it in... tho
- I've only tried LightWave, Sculpt4D, and AutoCAD... Pixel didn't take in
- the AutoCAD DXF file. The loader doesn't recognize outlined objects w/ no
- faces. Oh wells Pixel 3D 2.0 has no editing features anyways. If it did,
- then they'll have to call it a modeler!
-
- The beveling works well but it only works with the bitmap autotracer. That
- is, you set the beveling inset and depth and it will bevel after it
- autotrace the image in. It doesn't bevel existing outlined objects. I'm
- not too happy w/ with the way it autotrace bitmaps however.. I had a 250
- pt. size font in Dpaint and it did a poor job.. tracing the stair-stepped
- pixels so that the font came out looking pixelly if you examine it up
- close. I'll stick to my friend's custom beveler which also duplicates the
- bevel polygons so that LW doesn't phong-shade over the bevel as well as
- work on outlined objects.
-
- > The new features list would cover many pages at this point but the very latest
- > ones that Steve didn't mention is the addition of spline curves in the modeler.
-
- Is that spline curve like the "spine" effect in Hash's JourneyMan... sure
- looks like it! I'm looking forward to the caustic underwater texture Allen
- mentioned!
-
- -JC-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: 1450
- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 91 7:40:37 EDT
- From: ddyer@hubcap.clemson.edu (Doug Dyer)
-
- >
- > As I was away for the summer, I forgot how to post to the Imagine relay.
- > Please give me the address. Also, I am unable to connect to the Hubcap site
- > even though I am using the same address as last school semester. Has Hubcap
- > been moved, or does it have more than one address? Thanks!
- >
- > David
- >
- 130.127.8.1 is the actual address, and we don't have another address.
- Try replying to this message to make sure there isnt just some node down
- in the internet. I don't know how smart the network layer is on the
- internet, that might be the reason.
-
- p.s. for those that can't get an 'ls' I have been updating the
- 'files' file in the IMAGINE directory periodically.
-
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Doug Dyer * Clemson University * ddyer@hubcap.clemson.edu
- Quote 'O Fun: DOS is a bike without the seat. skydive naked
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- ##
-
- Subject: linking ROOMS
- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 91 13:30:44 BST
- From: jerry cullingford <jc@crosfield.co.uk>
-
- How's this for a fairly painless solution to joining the rooms together:
-
- Someone create a corridor section. Long, with lots of standard doors
- down one side, and distribute it to all the players:
-
-
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- .. X ..
-
- -----DDDDD----------22222---------11111-------DDDD----------DDDD--
-
-
- sort of thing. It needs to be _long_. Start off in the middle,
- near X, and move to the door [1111]. open the door, and walk through into
- your own set of rooms. When you've finished, go back into the corridor,
- through door [2222] and head towards X. If you make the corridor long
- enough, people won't notice that you aren't actually moving towards the end,
- so you can splice as many sets of peoples rooms together as you like. AND,
- you can make each set into a looping animation if you want. You could even
- make 2222 and 1111 further apart, with a standard "walk down the corridor"
- section; people only need to render the unique bit where you can see into
- their room - the corridor walk bit could be spliced in.
-
- What do people think about this? Would it work as a solution?
- --
- +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ |
- | Jerry Cullingford #include <std.disclaimer> +44 442 230000 | ,-|--
- | jc@crosfield.co.uk (was jc@cel.co.uk) or jc@cel.uucp x3203 | \_|__
- +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ \___/
-
- ##
-
- Subject: ImagineComp file
- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 91 12:56:36 EDT
- From: fsb@sparc.com (Steve Brailsford)
-
- I have been working on editing the ImagineComp file and
- wanted to ask people if they had any preferences they want
- to see for it. Like what formats should it be stored to
- (i.e. text, Word, postscript, ...) For those that have looked
- through it, I have corrected a lot of spelling errors and am
- working on correcting the grammar to make it much more
- readable. Does anyone have any ideas as to how they want
- each section to look? I could take the time to make it into
- a much nicer format, so let me know what ideas you all have.
- Thanks.
-
-
- --
- Steve Brailsford (fsb@sparc.vitro.com) _____
- Usenet: uupsi!vitro!sparc!fsb \/itro Corporation
- 14000 Georgia Ave.
- Voice: (301) 231-1481 Silver Spring, MD 20906
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Imagine 2.0!
- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 91 13:26:17 EDT
- From: johnh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (John J Humpal)
-
- For a $100 upgrade price, Imagine 2.0 had better be *incredibly* improved!
- Also, it seems that when Imagine 0.9 was first announced, Impulse promised
- a terrific user's manual. Wonder what happened...? ;-)
-
- -John
-
- John J. Humpal -- johnh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu -- short .sig, std. disclaimer
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Planets.zoo pic on hubcap
- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 91 11:08:40 -0700
- From: echadez@carl.org (Edward Chadez)
-
- I've uploaded Planets.HAM onto hubcap. This is the included .readme file:
-
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- Once, a while back, someone happened to mention that cresents weren't
- creatable with Imagine. Here's some proof.
-
- The picture is *supposed* to be a large, ringed planet sitting on its
- equator rather than its axis, and in the foreground, there's a smaller
- moon. The camera is situated so that the two look close to the same size,
- as they would if you were positioned close to the moon, and the moon was
- between you and the planet. Enough on the physics and optical stuff.
-
- Something to point out that I didn't plan on is the shadow of the ring on
- the planet. Kinda neat, hu? Reminds me of the Voyager pics. Also note
- that the planet itself casts a shadow across the "top" of the ring.
-
- The Picture is copyright Edward Chadez.
-
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- Use and abuse, my friends--just don't use or abuse for money. :-) :-) And
- any comments on how I could make it more realistic are always appreciated.
-
-
- Edward Chadez
- -Amiga3000-
-
- --
- +--//-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
- |\X/ echadez@carl.org/Edward Chadez CARL Systems(303)861-5319|
- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Imagine 2.0!
- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 91 11:16:48 CDT
- From: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Michael Linton)
-
- jcheng%mars@calstatela.edu (Action Jackson) writes:
-
- >
- > Yuck! No thanks! I cringe everytime I load up Imagine and that horrible
- > title picture shows up... I hope the next software release will not have
- > that!!
- >
- > -JC-
- >
- Do what I did, make your own title pic. It's just a little project if you
- get bored. Actually in the newsletter it says it has the Imagine logo on it.
- Who knows if it is the picture on the disk, or the title screen.
-
-
- --- (Michael Linton) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
- E-mail: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
- system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Imagine 2.0!
- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 91 12:06:22 PDT
- From: Mark Davis <davis@soomee.enet.dec.com>
-
- Here, Here! Imagine 2.0 had better be new for a $100.00 upgrade price.
- I still may not purchase the upgrade, especially with Impulse's track record
- for documentation!
-
- mark
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Path
- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 91 11:31:32 CDT
- From: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Michael Linton)
-
- I'm am working on an animation involving an object following a path. The
- problem is that on the first and last frames, the object is in the same place.
- This results bascily an extra frame. I thought it would be easy to
- solve by not rendering the last frame, but I'm useing rotate effects on the
- the same object at the same time. If I were not to render the last frame,
- anything which is rotating will miss a rotation. How do I get an object to
- follow a path, but not have it start and end at the same point. I'm using a
- closed path. Thanks.
-
- --- (Michael Linton) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
- E-mail: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
- system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Imagine...a cheaper upgrade
- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 91 12:14:13 -0700
- From: echadez@carl.org (Edward Chadez)
-
- Pub fully intended.
-
- When I first saw someone mention that the upgrade was going to set me back
- ANOTHER $100, the first thing I said was "They can keep their program!"
-
- I guess it's the same old situation where I'd have to see what I'm getting
- for the $100. If it's a wholly revamped software package, then probably
- $100 isn't too bad. But if it's just the same as Imagine 1.1 with a few
- bells and whistles.... Maybe Impulse should reconsider the upgrade fee,
- or provide the users with a better description of what they're getting for
- the money.....
-
- -Edward Chadez
-
- --
- +--//-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
- |\X/ echadez@carl.org/Edward Chadez CARL Systems(303)861-5319|
- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Imagine...a cheaper upgrade
- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 91 12:26:19 -0700
- From: echadez@carl.org (Edward Chadez)
-
- On Oct 10, 12:14pm, I wrote:
- } Subject: Imagine...a cheaper upgrade
- }
- } Pub fully intended.
- ^^^
- That's 'pun'...funny, I seem to make these typos and don't catch them
- until the letter makes it way back to me.
-
- On the other hand, a pub wouldn't be a bad idea to make with the object
- editor.... :-) :-)
- }
-
-
- --
- +--//-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
- |\X/ echadez@carl.org/Edward Chadez CARL Systems(303)861-5319|
- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: lowres animation
- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 91 11:23:34 CDT
- From: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Michael Linton)
-
- rtaraz@wpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
-
- > the problem is that the palette for each frame is different. So when you
- > run the animfile, using DP4, the colors keep changing. How do you
- > tell imagine to use the same palette for all frames?
- >
- > Does this problem happen in ham too?
- >
- > rtaraz@wpi.wpi.edu
-
- Instead of generating the frames first. Select all of the frames you wnat to
- render, then click on "make". This will render the frames and put them together
- into a movie. If you are in lo res, it will ask you if you want to lock the
- color pallette. Select yes, and you will have an animation with the pallette
- the same on all frames.
-
- --- (Michael Linton) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
- E-mail: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
- system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Imagine 2.0!
- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 91 14:51 EDT
- From: "Marc Rifkin" <R38@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
-
- >I just recived my first copy of the Imagine Gazzette. And in it was some
- >rather interesting news about Imagine 2.0. I don't know if anyone has ...
- >but it looks like the upgrade price will be around $ 100.00. Also ...
-
- I don't know about anyone else, but I feel cheated after spending $200
- for a product and now I have to spend another $100... If it is still
- a 3D graphics package, it is still the same product, not something "new."
- (Same sentiments to the Toaster upgrade)
-
- I can't afford $100 upgrades!
-
- Marc Rifkin
- Integrative Technologies Lab, Penn State University
- 5F Mitchell Building, University Park, PA 16802
- 814-863-8062 or for you normal people, r38@psuvm.psu.edu
- "Hasta, la etc."
-
- ##
-
- Subject: DCTV Directory at Hubcap?
- Date: 10 Oct 91 22:15 -0500
- From: "Jeff A. Bell" <uubell@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
-
- The subject line basically says it all. Would anyone object
- to starting up a DCTV directory for storing Imagine pics? How many
- people on this list own a DCTV? Would it be worth it? I'm working on
- a couple things right now that I wouldn't mind placing on Hubcap in
- DCTV format, but only if others are going to be able to view it.
-
- I'd LOVE to see some of those pics in near 24bit (and the display format
- doesn't take up all that much more room than a HAM pic..)
-
- Ciao,
-
- Jeff
- --
- uubell@ccu.umanitoba.ca
-
- ##
-
- Subject: 2.0 Wish List
- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 91 22:25:36 -0600
- From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <hurtt@tramp.Colorado.EDU>
-
- Here's something I'd really like to see in Imagine 2.0 or any 3-D
- modeler in that case. Power Glove support!! Being able to position objects
- in the stage editor by moving your hand around would be great! Also a special
- 'Glove Editor' could be made where you actually 'sculpt'a sphere into a
- shape!
- Heck desribing motion & extrusion paths in space would be cool too.
- I'm sure theres tons of great things that could be done.
-
- Chris
- { Chris Hurtt | Computer Science | This Space }
- { hurtt@tramp.colorado.edu | Applications in | For Rent }
- { churtt@nyx.cs.du.edu | Fine Arts Major | (303)-466-9259 }
- { !kessener!burner!churtt | CU - Boulder | PEACE! }
-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Powerglove & Amos 3-d
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 02:13:38 -0700
- From: Michael Gibson <gibsonm@u.washington.edu>
-
- A powerglove interface for Imagine or any other 3-d program would be
- incredible. And possible, now that the encryption on the "hi-res" data from
- the glove has been cracked. Over on the powerglove mailing list, there
- is already C source for the Atari ST and the IBM.... Modeling points would
- be great... just think, you could "push points" with your hand... you
- could sculpt in 3-d in the air. That would be really cool.. and not entirely
- unfeasable either.
-
- Say, is anyone on this list messing around with AMOS 3-D ? I am a big 3-d
- enthusiast, and I have been very impressed with AMOS 3-d, which is an
- extension to the AMOS basic programming package that gives basic commands
- to control 3-d objects. It also has a modeller with it. I have been having
- a real hard time going back to Imagine after using AMOS. Why? Because AMOS
- is FAST! You can move and rotate objects in real time, and program them to
- zoom around with a joystick. Instant gratification! The package has its
- quirks, but I think it is really cool. It can be used to generate animations
- that behave under user control, or exhibit random behavior or whatever...
- These animations could be *HOURS* long if you wanted them to, since they
- are generated on the fly with a language... and they do not take up barely
- any space, contrasted to any other animation. It doesn't have any kind of
- phong shading, of course, and is a limited palette, but I was very surprised
- to find some provisions for adding surface detail (crude image mapping) and
- even some support for morphing! I really like the speed.
-
- Michael
-
- gibsonm@milton.u.washington.edu
-
- ##
-
- Subject: many things
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 5:14:49 PDT
- From: tucker@cs.unr.edu (Aaron Tucker)
-
- Well, here are a few things:
-
- To the people having problems with creating animations that have a
- copy of a frame: If you can't delete it because of other motion, make the
- other motion end one frame earlier. Wala! Now you can delete the extra
- frame.
-
- About IMAGINE 2.0: If it much improved, it is worth $100, easily.
- What most AMIGA users don't understand, is that software for other platforms
- is very expensive. I have a review of many 3D packages for the MAC, IBM,
- and some for the AMIGA. The MAC and IBM prices are very high. Some of the
- software isn't better or much better than the AMIGA software, yet we are
- paying hundreds less than COMPARABLE MAC software. Don't bitch about the
- price forever, just buy it or don't buy it. Simple solution.
-
- About textures:
-
- The textures on 128.163.128.6 in the /textures/tapex directories are
- in a RAW 8bit format as Mark Thompson pointed out. THANK YOU MARK! Anyways,
- you can spens the time to also d/l PBMPLUS and use that to convert them, or
- you can load up ADPRO (or RASTERLINK) and use the Sculpt Greyscale loader.
- I am saving them back out as 8bit IFFs, and saving TONS of room.
- The larger files are 1024 x 1024 and the smaller files are 512 x 512.
- ADPRO and RASTERLINK need this information. The textures are 8bit versions
- of the pictures that come with MAPMASTER plus more. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND
- getting them.
-
- About the ROOMS project: I, finally having some time to devote to
- actual modelling, am creating a bathroom. Who knows how long it will take.
- I have about half of the objects created and have all the textures I should
- need ready (and brushmaps).
- Anyways, I also have a VERY easy idea about the ROOMS PROJECT. We
- could each create our own room with the camera in the doorway to start. We
- then proceed to do the animation. After you are done, the camera can fade
- from the final frame into the start of a different room. The first and last
- frames can static for 5 to 15 seconds to allow time for credits and the
- fade in/out. Simple, easy, and painless. Comments?
-
-
- Juan Trevino
- tucker@mammoth.cs.unr.edu
-
- "O KEY DOUGH KEY?" - me
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: DCTV Directory at Hubcap?
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 9:01:56 EDT
- From: ddyer@hubcap.clemson.edu (Doug Dyer)
-
- >
- > The subject line basically says it all. { Would anyone object
- > to starting up a DCTV directory for storing Imagine pics? How many
- > people on this list own a DCTV? Would it be worth it? I'm working on
- > a couple things right now that I wouldn't mind placing on Hubcap in
- > DCTV format, but only if others are going to be able to view it.
- >
- > I'd LOVE to see some of those pics in near 24bit (and the display format
- > doesn't take up all that much more room than a HAM pic..)
- >
- > Ciao,
- >
- > Jeff
- > --
- > uubell@ccu.umanitoba.ca
- >
- >
- Go for it.
-
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Doug Dyer * Clemson University * ddyer@hubcap.clemson.edu
- Quote 'O Fun: DOS is a bike without the seat. skydive naked
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: many things
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 09:52:24 EDT
- From: Mark Thompson <mark@westford.ccur.com>
-
- Juan Trevino writes:
- > The textures on 128.163.128.6 in the /textures/tapex directories are
- > in a RAW 8bit format as Mark Thompson pointed out.
- > The textures are 8bit versions
- > of the pictures that come with MAPMASTER plus more.
-
- A minor clarification. These textures are not originally from Louis Markoya's
- Map Master but digitized images from a book by Phil Brodatz called "Textures".
- The images in this book are not copyrighted so anyone may digitize them.
- Most of the images in Map Master are digitized from the same book. I just
- wanted to make sure no one thought these images were pirated from a commercial
- product.
-
- Also on the same subject. No doubt anyone with ftp access will now want
- copies of these images (textures). I might mention that many of the images
- are duplicates with the only difference being the amount of image contrast.
- It would be nice to organize an effort to weed out the duplicates, convert
- the unique ones, and make them publically available so that we all don't
- have to duplicate this effort. Each person working on this project could
- take care of say 20 or so different images. The format I would advocate is
- the 8bit IFF greymaps that Juan mentioned. I would be willing to help in
- this effort (but I can't start till a week from today). Any interest?
- |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
- | ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER |
- | --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics |
- | ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect |
- | Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance |
- | |
- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: many things
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 07:38:49 -0700
- From: echadez@carl.org (Edward Chadez)
-
- On Oct 11, 5:14am, Aaron Tucker wrote:
- } Subject: many things
- }
- }
- }
- } Well, here are a few things:
- }
- } About IMAGINE 2.0: If it much improved, it is worth $100, easily.
- } What most AMIGA users don't understand, is that software for other platforms
- } is very expensive. I have a review of many 3D packages for the MAC, IBM,
- } and some for the AMIGA. The MAC and IBM prices are very high.
-
- But don't you see? That's the whole point! I didn't buy a MAC or an IBM
- because the prices for the products were ridiculously high. I think that
- Impulse may just be milking that last upgrade dollar from us users...or
- they may actually have a product worth upgrading to.
-
- For me, it completely depends on the addition of some key features (that I
- won't go into here). If I decide that Mr. Halvorsen's (SP?) new product is
- worthy of my hard-earned "upgrade" money, then he'll get it. But for $100
- he's going to have to do more than just change the intro picture. :-)
-
- }
- }
- } Juan Trevino
- } tucker@mammoth.cs.unr.edu
- }
- } "O KEY DOUGH KEY?" - me
- }
- }-- End of excerpt from Aaron Tucker
-
-
- Edward Chadez
- -Amiga3000-
-
- --
- +--//-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
- |\X/ echadez@carl.org/Edward Chadez CARL Systems(303)861-5319|
- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: many things
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 11:22:24 -0400
- From: Udo K Schuermann <walrus@wam.umd.edu>
-
- [digitized textures in RAW format]
- > Mark Thompson <mark@westford.ccur.com> writes:
- >
- > It would be nice to organize an effort to weed out the duplicates, convert
- > the unique ones, and make them publically available so that we all don't
- > have to duplicate this effort. Each person working on this project could
- > take care of say 20 or so different images. The format I would advocate is
- > the 8bit IFF greymaps that Juan mentioned. I would be willing to help in
- > this effort (but I can't start till a week from today). Any interest?
-
- Having just recently gotten ADPro (yeah!) I offer my services for the
- conversion. I think I can handle 20 images and I've got 5 Megs of RAM to
- work with. It seems like hubcap.clemson.edu would be a good place to put
- the results.
-
- I also think it would be a good idea to create a few screens with samples
- of the images (such as 4x4, 9x9, or 16x16 panels) in HAM or dithered
- highres because not everyone can display 24 bit images (like those of us
- with DCTV).
-
- ._. Udo Schuermann "Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter
- ( ) walrus@wam.umd.edu with the promise of the brave new world unfurled
- Seeking virtual memory beneath the clear blue sky?" -- Pink Floyd
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Maps
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 10:34:37 -0600
- From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <hurtt@tramp.Colorado.EDU>
-
- I'll help out with the map converting. No problem. Someone want to start
- diving them up? Where do the final products go, IMAGINE/BRUSHMAPS I assume...
-
- Chris
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: many things
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 12:30:11 CDT
- From: Wayne Haufler 283-4160 <haufler@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov>
-
- Juan Trevino (tucker@mammoth.cs.unr.edu) writes:
- > Anyways, I also have a VERY easy idea about the ROOMS PROJECT. We
- > could each create our own room with the camera in the doorway to start. We
- > then proceed to do the animation. After you are done, the camera can fade
- > from the final frame into the start of a different room. The first and last
- > frames can static for 5 to 15 seconds to allow time for credits and the
- > fade in/out. Simple, easy, and painless. Comments?
-
- I agree that this would be much easier to implement, and with a
- volunteer group project like this, the easier it is to do the more
- likely it is going to be done.
-
- However, I am afraid that simplifying this project may dilute the
- uniqueness, challenge, and excitement of it all, and thus the
- motivation to do it may suffer. IMHO the really exciting aspect about
- the ROOMS PROJECT is the concept of a virtual collective object, a
- house, built as a cooperative effort within cyberspace, by people who
- have never actually met, as difficult as that may be. The animation
- would be a tour through that object. The uniqueness of this
- project is that it has NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE, as far as we know.
- ("...To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before..." 8^) ).
-
- However, perhaps it is exciting enough that it is a joint animation
- effort, and we should concentrate on that aspect. An animation using
- Juan's approach could IMPLY that it is all the same house, though it
- would be somewhat discontinuous as an animation, and may only be viewed
- as a collection of similar short animations.
-
- Just some comments. I am not saying we shouldn't follow Juan's suggestion.
- If this effort is bogging down, perhaps we should compromise our earlier
- grandiose ideas and use an easier approach. Or not compromise and
- patiently settle for a longer timeline.
-
- ( What am I saying 'we' for? I didn't sign up to do a whole room,
- though I will buy the final product, and am willing to donate objects
- and contribute ideas. Wish I had more time. :/ )
-
-
- __ Wayne A. Haufler [Christian/SW Engineer/XLib'er/Amigan]
- \\ /\\ /\\ //_ haufler@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov MDSSC - Houston
- \/--\// \//__ Hobby:"Exploring the Use of Computer Graphics and
- // Animations To Support Christian Endeavors"
-
- ##
-
- Subject: IMAGINE 2.0 Upgrade
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 11:25:25 -0500
- From: degroot@dog.csc.ti.com
-
- On Oct 11, 5:14am, Aaron Tucker wrote:
- } Subject: many things
- } Well, here are a few things:
- }
- } About IMAGINE 2.0: If it much improved, it is worth $100, easily.
- } What most AMIGA users don't understand, is that software for other platforms
- } is very expensive. I have a review of many 3D packages for the MAC, IBM,
- } and some for the AMIGA. The MAC and IBM prices are very high.
-
- I use both a Mac and an Amiga. I have yet to buy any video/graphics program
- for the Mac with documentation as pitiful as what I received when I purchased
- Imagine. (Further, I can't think of any other Amiga product I have purchased
- with that pitiful of a documentation either!) But, just to cite one
- counterexample to your statement, I have been an avid user of VideoPaint on
- the Mac - it is quite good, and it has execllent documentation. I just
- received the upgrade notice for system 2.0, and the upgrade fee is $19.95!!!
- So, 1) your upgrade fee analysis is not completely correct, and 2) what you
- get with a typical Mac upgrade, at least in the documentation department, is
- not at all comparable to what Imagine has released so far in this dept.
-
- I agree with the author of a few notes back, that the documentation with 2.0
- better be *real* good for $100. Otherwise, we might as well add on another $25
- for the cost of the third-party user's manual.
-
-
- Doug DeGroot
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Pixel3D v2.0
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 09:12:52 PDT
- From: Mark Davis <davis@soomee.enet.dec.com>
-
- There is a demo floating around of Pixel3D v2.0. If you see it
- check it out. Not only does Pixel3d create objects from bitmaps
- but it also, point reduces, scales, converts to/from the popular
- Amiga 3D object formats and has a NEAT interface that lets you
- rotate your object in 3D space, ala Caligari, plus 'render' the
- object in wire frame or shaded (color or no). I called Axiom and
- was told that a flyer was being mailed to current Pixel3D owners
- re: upgrades. As someone mentioned earlier, Interchange has got
- some very good competition. The demo does not SAVE but will allow
- you to load different object formats and play around with them.
- I have the demo but no FTP access, at this time :-|
-
- mark
-
- ##
-
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 16:36:21 EDT
- From: Mark Thompson <mark@westford.ccur.com>
-
- > I have the book "Textures", by Phil Brodatz (sp?). I'm not totally convinced
- > that all the plates in the book are copyright free.
-
- This may be true, I'll have to check for certain.
-
- > What resolution are they available in? I think you mention 8bit IFF
- > greymaps, but what resolution?
-
- The smaller ones are 512x512 and the larger ones are 1024x1024. I propose
- that they be converted to the same resolution IFF greymap (I don't want
- to throw any info away). This is well within the realm af ADPro to do.
-
- > Also, Imagine cannot use 8bit as brush maps correct?
-
- I cannot say for certain as I use LightWave. I do know that the current
- release of LightWave will accept any resolution image but currently does
- not support greymaps. The soon to be released 2.0 rev WILL support greymaps
- however.
- |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
- | ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER |
- | --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics |
- | ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect |
- | Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance |
- | |
- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Maps
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 16:44:37 EDT
- From: Mark Thompson <mark@westford.ccur.com>
-
- >I'll help out with the map converting. No problem. Someone want to start
- >diving them up? Where do the final products go, IMAGINE/BRUSHMAPS I assume...
-
- I have already done the first 20 in Tape1 and would be willing to do
- more if need be. I should mention to anyone doing conversions to IFF
- format that most of the images have a small black border on the bottom.
- This MUST be cropped out or else annoying lines will show up in your
- textures.
- |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
- | ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER |
- | --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics |
- | ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect |
- | Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance |
- | |
- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Imagine 2.0!
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 11:27:45 CDT
- From: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Michael Linton)
-
- "Marc Rifkin" <R38@PSUVM.PSU.EDU> writes:
-
- > I don't know about anyone else, but I feel cheated after spending $200
- > for a product and now I have to spend another $100... If it is still
- > a 3D graphics package, it is still the same product, not something "new."
- > (Same sentiments to the Toaster upgrade)
- >
- > I can't afford $100 upgrades!
- >
- > Marc Rifkin
- Like I said the upgrade price has not yet been comfirmed. So there is a
- possibility that it will be cheaper. But I know what you mean. They should
- make it a free upgrade for those who bought it in the past 4 months, or
- something like that. If it has a lot of new features, it might be worth the
- $ 100.00 upgrade price.
-
-
- --- (Michael Linton) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
- E-mail: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
- system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Imagine...a cheaper upgrade
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 11:32:07 CDT
- From: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Michael Linton)
-
- echadez@carl.org (Edward Chadez) writes:
-
- > Pub fully intended.
- >
- > When I first saw someone mention that the upgrade was going to set me back
- > ANOTHER $100, the first thing I said was "They can keep their program!"
- >
- > I guess it's the same old situation where I'd have to see what I'm getting
- > for the $100. If it's a wholly revamped software package, then probably
- > $100 isn't too bad. But if it's just the same as Imagine 1.1 with a few
- > bells and whistles.... Maybe Impulse should reconsider the upgrade fee,
- > or provide the users with a better description of what they're getting for
- > the money.....
- >
- > -Edward Chadez
- >
- The next Imagine Gazzette, is supposed to be allmost totally on the new
- upgrade. When I get it I will post some of the new functions, so you can
- decide if it is worth the money.
-
-
- --- (Michael Linton) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
- E-mail: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
- system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
-
- ##
-
- Subject: rooms
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 18:41:33 EDT
- From: alan@picasso.umbc.edu (Alan Price)
-
- Juan Trevino (tucker@mammoth.cs.unr.edu) writes:
- > Anyways, I also have a VERY easy idea about the ROOMS PROJECT. We
- > could each create our own room with the camera in the doorway to start. We
- > then proceed to do the animation. After you are done, the camera can fade
- > from the final frame into the start of a different room. The first and last
- > frames can static for 5 to 15 seconds to allow time for credits and the
- > fade in/out. Simple, easy, and painless. Comments?
-
- AND Wayne A. Haufler writes:
- >I agree that this would be much easier to implement, and with a
- >volunteer group project like this, the easier it is to do the more
- >likely it is going to be done.
-
- >However, I am afraid that simplifying this project may dilute the
- >uniqueness, challenge, and excitement of it all, and thus the
- >motivation to do it may suffer. IMHO the really exciting aspect about
- >the ROOMS PROJECT is the concept of a virtual collective object, a
- >house, built as a cooperative effort within cyberspace, by people who
- >have never actually met, as difficult as that may be. The animation
- >would be a tour through that object. The uniqueness of this
- >project is that it has NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE, as far as we know.
- >("...To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before..." 8^) ).
-
- Well put, Wayne, my sentiments exactly on this subject. I hope that everyone
- continues to consider the possiblity of actually realizing this project.
-
- As far as Juan's suggestion, I need some clarification:
-
- It seems that your idea for simplifying the project is to have each
- participant render their own sequence. Is this correct? I feel that this
- would actually slow down the process of completing the project, in addition
- to creating possible incompatabilities in terms of frame-rates, color output,
- formats, etc.
-
- In a nutshell, the initial proposal asked just to create a room of your
- wildest dreams and uuencode it and send it to my address. I, and whatever
- assistance I can get, will stick'em all together and render it. That's it.
- Ofcourse a lot of notes had to be added to cover standardization of path-
- names, etc. You could also send a 'staging' file to show paths of objects
- that move during the 'visit' to your room, or placement and intensity of
- light sources. If you don't want to deal with a staging file, you could
- just send a note describing where lights go and such.
-
- Read over the proposal again, or ask me to send it to you if you dont'
- have it.
-
- Another suggestion to help the ball to roll:
-
- Does anyone think it might be a good idea to submit rooms to a "ROOMS"
- directory on HUBCAP? I like making rooms and I have several I could post
- just for fun, including the one with spiral stairs, and one with corinthian
- columns and arches. Also, I would post 'public rooms' where anyone could
- d/l, put in a piece of their own furniture, then u/l it back?
-
- AP.
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Maps
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 18:48:36 EDT
- From: Udo K Schuermann <walrus@wam.umd.edu>
-
- mark@westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) writes:
- > I have already done the first 20 in Tape1 and would be willing to do
- > more if need be. I should mention to anyone doing conversions to IFF
- > format that most of the images have a small black border on the bottom.
- > This MUST be cropped out or else annoying lines will show up in your
- > textures.
-
- I don't have time until the middle of next week to do this, but I will
- convert Tape2 then. If you, Mark, or someone else wants to do it in my
- stead, please send me an email to that effect so we don't trample on each
- others' feet ;-)
-
- Cheers, all!
-
- ._. Udo Schuermann "Did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter
- ( ) walrus@wam.umd.edu with the promise of the brave new world unfurled
- Seeking virtual memory beneath the clear blue sky?" -- Pink Floyd
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Textures
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 19:56:23 -0400
- From: fbranham@prism.gatech.edu (BRANHAM,JOSEPH FRANKLIN)
-
- And I'm downloading the GIFD version I just created of directory tape3.
-
- I'm also planning to create a 640x200 16color screen with a 4x4 matrix of
- the textures in tape3. Or mayhap 3x4 since there are 12 of them.
-
- Will put mine in brushmaps as soon as I cook them Tomorrow.
-
- Moo
- Frank Branham
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Maps again
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 17:36:32 -0600
- From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <hurtt@tramp.Colorado.EDU>
-
- Wow! Didn't relize the size of them puppies. I'll take on the <1meg
- in tape 3 then. I know that isn't much but with 3 megs I doubt ADPro will
- like to load them in. I have troublt with >250K IFF24. Thats without WB or
- anything.
-
- Chris
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Imagine 2.0!
- Date: Fri, 11 Oct 91 18:08:55 CST
- From: telepro!James_Hastings-Trew@herald.usask.ca (James Hastings-Trew)
-
- In a message dated Fri 11 Oct 91 00:53, "Marc Rifkin" <R38@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
- wrote:
-
- MRR> I don't know about anyone else, but I feel cheated after spending
- MRR> $200
- MRR> for a product and now I have to spend another $100... If it is still
- MRR> a 3D graphics package, it is still the same product, not something
- MRR> "new."
- MRR> (Same sentiments to the Toaster upgrade)
-
- MRR> I can't afford $100 upgrades!
-
- I for one am glad to see the end of Impulse's free upgrades for life policy.
- When a company offers a substatial upgrade for a realistic fee it means that
- they are running their business properly. This means that they will still be
- around in a year, and the year after that, etc. When a company offers a
- substantial upgrade for a silly fee like $5 or $10, it says to me that they
- have no business sense, and that they will be going out of business, or just
- won't bother upgrading very often.
-
- A $100 upgrade fee tells me that Imagine 2.0 will be an excellent product,
- that Impulse is thinking in a fiscally responsible way, and that us Imagine
- owners won't be orphaned with a product that has no support and no future.
-
-
- -- Via DLG Pro v0.975b
-
- --- James Hastings-Trew telepro!JAMES_HASTINGS-TREW@herald.usask.ca ---
- -> If everyone in China jumped at the same time <- subliminalmessagewith
- -> would they bring back TWIN PEAKS? <- subtlebutdeviousplan.
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: many things
- Date: Sat, 12 Oct 91 10:45:10 EDT
- From: bobl@graphics.rent.com (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm)
-
- Mark Thompson <rutgers!westford.ccur.com!mark> writes:
-
- > Also on the same subject. No doubt anyone with ftp access will now want
- > copies of these images (textures). I might mention that many of the images
- > are duplicates with the only difference being the amount of image contrast.
- > It would be nice to organize an effort to weed out the duplicates, convert
- > the unique ones, and make them publically available so that we all don't
- > have to duplicate this effort. Each person working on this project could
- > take care of say 20 or so different images. The format I would advocate is
- > the 8bit IFF greymaps that Juan mentioned. I would be willing to help in
- > this effort (but I can't start till a week from today). Any interest?
-
- Well, obviously I'm quite interested. I would love to help out also
- but it seems that I only have mail FTP access (via FTPMAIL) and it is
- a bit flakey at best.
-
- If the project ever gets completed, I would love someone to send me a
- disk full of the textures however. <grin>
-
- -- Bob
-
- The Graphics BBS 908/469-0049 "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
- ============================================================================
- InterNet: bobl@graphics.rent.com | Raven Enterprises
- UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl | 25 Raven Avenue
- BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc | Piscataway, NJ 08854
- Home #: 908/560-7353 | 908/271-8878
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: many things
- Date: Sat, 12 Oct 91 10:50:52 EDT
- From: bobl@graphics.rent.com (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm)
-
- rutgers!carl.org!echadez (Edward Chadez) writes:
-
- > But don't you see? That's the whole point! I didn't buy a MAC or an IBM
- > because the prices for the products were ridiculously high. I think that
- > Impulse may just be milking that last upgrade dollar from us users...or
- > they may actually have a product worth upgrading to.
-
- I agree to a large extent. Half the purchase price of your software
- as an upgrade cost each year is a bit much in my book.
-
- > For me, it completely depends on the addition of some key features (that I
- > won't go into here). If I decide that Mr. Halvorsen's (SP?) new product is
- > worthy of my hard-earned "upgrade" money, then he'll get it. But for $100
- > he's going to have to do more than just change the intro picture. :-)
-
- I'm not sure what the official word is going to be but if I'm going
- to be asked to lay out an additional $100 for an upgrade, I would
- expect at least a month of working with the new software before
- making my decision. I don't want to lay out the $100 and then find
- out that the additions are not implemented in an easy to use fashion
- or that they are just some cosmetic additions. I want to get into it
- deep and dirty to see if it is actually going to be worth half the
- purchase price prior to my shelling out the bucks.
-
- Some sort of 30 day money back type of deal may be workable.
-
- -- Bob
-
- The Graphics BBS 908/469-0049 "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
- ============================================================================
- InterNet: bobl@graphics.rent.com | Raven Enterprises
- UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl | 25 Raven Avenue
- BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc | Piscataway, NJ 08854
- Home #: 908/560-7353 | 908/271-8878
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: DCTV Directory at Hubcap?
- Date: Sat, 12 Oct 91 10:39:50 EDT
- From: bobl@graphics.rent.com (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm)
-
- rutgers!hubcap.clemson.edu!ddyer (Doug Dyer) writes:
-
- > >
- > > The subject line basically says it all. { Would anyone object
- > > to starting up a DCTV directory for storing Imagine pics? How many
- > > people on this list own a DCTV? Would it be worth it? I'm working on
- > > a couple things right now that I wouldn't mind placing on Hubcap in
- > > DCTV format, but only if others are going to be able to view it.
- > >
- > > I'd LOVE to see some of those pics in near 24bit (and the display format
- > > doesn't take up all that much more room than a HAM pic..)
- > >
- > > Ciao,
- > >
- > > Jeff
- > > --
- > > uubell@ccu.umanitoba.ca
- > >
- > >
- > Go for it.
-
- I would vote *not* to start a DCTV directory on Hubcap. It would
- seem to me that we would all be better served if the images were
- stored in 24-bit format. In this way we can all convert them to the
- format of our own choice without the limitations placed on images
- that are stored in the DCTV format.
-
- If images are in DCTV format, a large percentage of your audience is
- going to be out-of-luck when it comes to viewing potentially
- wonderful images.
-
- -- Bob
-
- The Graphics BBS 908/469-0049 "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
- ============================================================================
- InterNet: bobl@graphics.rent.com | Raven Enterprises
- UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl | 25 Raven Avenue
- BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc | Piscataway, NJ 08854
- Home #: 908/560-7353 | 908/271-8878
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Rooms, 2.0 upgrade
- Date: Sun, 13 Oct 91 01:51:17 PDT
- From: jake@melmac.umd.edu (Rob Borsari)
-
- I am working on my room. I repaired my GVP 030 by installng one of those
- little fans from Rat Shack. No more heat crashes. I think that taking
- the time and effort to put the rooms into a house will be worth it. The
- rooms don't all have to fit inside the 'house' as long as the doors match
- up in the hallway.
-
- On 2.0, I have yet to see one fact. I have seen several guesses and the
- response to them. Has anyone seen this program yet? Has anyone talked to
- mike about the price? Has anyone figured out why there is a delete button
- on the projects screen? Lets get some facts into play here.
-
-
- Is anyone going to put a person in their room? I made a 'pose figure'
- model and was considering placeing it in my room. Are we aiming at just
- furniture and stuff or are we going to go for things like moving clocks
- and tv sets? (forgot smilys for second para. ;) ;) ;) ) -R-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: DCTV directory at Hubcap..
- Date: 13 Oct 91 0:59 -0500
- From: "Jeff A. Bell" <uubell@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
-
- > If images are in DCTV format, a large percentage of your audience is
- > going to be out-of-luck when it comes to viewing potentially
- > wonderful images.
- >
- > -- Bob
-
- I agree. However, storing, and up/downloading 24bit images
- borders on crazy. The only reason I mentioned setting up a DCTV
- directory was due to the rather reasonable size of the display
- format images.
-
- Now, if Digital Creations were good enough to provide a DCTVtoIFF
- converter, somewhat akin to the IFFtoDCTV converter that comes with
- the DCTV, then we'd be in business..
-
- Hmmm. Anyone for a JPEG compressor? T'would solve this dilemma
- quite nicely, IMHO.. :)
-
- Later Bob,
-
- Jeff
- --
- uubell@ccu.umanitoba.ca
-
-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: 24bit or dctv
- Date: Sun, 13 Oct 91 3:02:02 PDT
- From: tucker@cs.unr.edu (Aaron Tucker)
-
- I agree 100% with Bob that a DCTV directory would not be good. It
- might be nice for DCTV users, but what about the other 90% of us? Having a
- DCTV to IFF converter wont do any good. The reason the image is so small is
- that they throw away all the data DCTV doesn't need. A pic converted from
- DCTV to 24bit IFF and shown on a 24bit video board would have a lot of
- artifacts from the NTSC compression algorithm they implement.
-
- Anyways, I think a plain 24bit directory is the best universal
- solution. They should be compressed/uncompressed 24bit IFF ILBM files. That
- way, everybody can use them and enjoy them.
-
- If you have a DCTV, when you load up your trace and edit it, save it
- in the 24bit format and upload it. Then, if you want, convert it to the DCTV
- format for your use or archives. If you ever upgrade to a 24bit device, you
- will have access to all the data that you need. Besides, I don't think
- HUBCAP is hurting on space, and you can always store your 24bit IFFs to
- floppy.
-
- That's it. You can digest now.
-
-
- Juan Trevino
- tucker@mammoth.cs.unr.edu
- "O KEY DOUGH KEY" -me
-
-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: DCTV directory at Hubcap..
- Date: Sun, 13 Oct 91 08:18:27 PDT
- From: Harv@cup.portal.com
-
- >Date: 13 Oct 91 0:59 -0500
- >From: "Jeff A. Bell" <uubell@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
- >To: imagine@Athena.MIT.EDU
- >Message-Id: <42*uubell@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
- >Subject: DCTV directory at Hubcap..
- >
- >> If images are in DCTV format, a large percentage of your audience is
- >> going to be out-of-luck when it comes to viewing potentially
- >> wonderful images.
- >>
- >> -- Bob
- >
- >I agree. However, storing, and up/downloading 24bit images
- >borders on crazy. The only reason I mentioned setting up a DCTV
- >directory was due to the rather reasonable size of the display
- >format images.
- >
- >Now, if Digital Creations were good enough to provide a DCTVtoIFF
- >converter, somewhat akin to the IFFtoDCTV converter that comes with
- >the DCTV, then we'd be in business..
- >
- >Hmmm. Anyone for a JPEG compressor? T'would solve this dilemma
- >quite nicely, IMHO.. :)
- >
- >Later Bob,
- >
- >Jeff
- >--
- >uubell@ccu.umanitoba.ca
-
- There're now two different JPEG compressors, for Amiga, in our libraries
- on Portal. One, under the name of "AUGJPEG.LZH" translates JPEG to
- IFF24 in both directions, going thru the intermediate step of PPM
- files.
-
- The other translates JPEG directly to DCTV (onscreen only, does not
- save it out to a file, but a screen grabber could). This one is
- JPEG2DCTV.LZH
-
- Perhaps Mr. Worley, who is a Portal user, could make these two available
- to the mailing list folks.
-
- I've personally stopped uploading DCTV files which are strictly limited
- to DCTV owners and have instead started uploading JPEGged IFF24 files,
- which, generally, are even smaller! (typically 60 to 100K or so).
- The only DCTV pix I'll distribute now are those I find elsewhere, such
- as on BBSes.
-
- Regards, Harv
- Moderator/Sysop
- The Amiga Zone
- The Portal System
-
- ##
-
- Subject: DCTV directory at Hubcap..
- Date: Sun, 13 Oct 91 08:43:44 EDT
- From: bobl@graphics.rent.com (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm)
-
- "Jeff A. Bell" <rutgers!ccu.umanitoba.ca!uubell> writes:
-
- > > If images are in DCTV format, a large percentage of your audience is
- > > going to be out-of-luck when it comes to viewing potentially
- > > wonderful images.
- > >
- > > -- Bob
- >
- > I agree. However, storing, and up/downloading 24bit images
- > borders on crazy. The only reason I mentioned setting up a DCTV
- > directory was due to the rather reasonable size of the display
- > format images.
-
- Well, 24-bit IFF images compress pretty good. I don't see a problem
- with them. And if you wanted, you can further compress them with
- LHARC or some such archiver. I still think 24-bit is the only way to
- go for images.
-
- > Now, if Digital Creations were good enough to provide a DCTVtoIFF
- > converter, somewhat akin to the IFFtoDCTV converter that comes with
- > the DCTV, then we'd be in business..
-
- You still lose information. Conversion of DCTV to IFF will lose
- info. If we are going to spend the time to create an images
- directory and maintain it, the directory should contain the best
- possible images.
-
- > Hmmm. Anyone for a JPEG compressor? T'would solve this dilemma
- > quite nicely, IMHO.. :)
-
- JPEG has it's problems also. I don't know if I would go for that
- based on the scarcity of JPEG decompression software available for
- the Amiga.
-
- > Jeff
- > --
- > uubell@ccu.umanitoba.ca
-
- -- Bob
-
- The Graphics BBS 908/469-0049 "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
- ============================================================================
- InterNet: bobl@graphics.rent.com | Raven Enterprises
- UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl | 25 Raven Avenue
- BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc | Piscataway, NJ 08854
- Home #: 908/560-7353 | 908/271-8878
-
- ##
-
- Subject: JPEG'ed 24bit IFFs..
- Date: 13 Oct 91 14:42 -0500
- From: "Jeff A. Bell" <uubell@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
-
- > I've personally stopped uploading DCTV files which are strictly limited
- > to DCTV owners and have instead started uploading JPEGged IFF24 files,
- > which, generally, are even smaller! (typically 60 to 100K or so).
- > The only DCTV pix I'll distribute now are those I find elsewhere, such
- > as on BBSes.
- >
- > Regards, Harv
- > Moderator/Sysop
- > The Amiga Zone
- > The Portal System
-
- You echo my feelings on the subject, Harv. A few people have expressed
- some concern over the 'lossy' method of compression that JPEG uses, but
- personally, I think that whatever is lost is more than made up by the
- extremely small file sizes that result. As well, surely a JPEGed 24bit
- IFF is STILL going to look better than a HAM image of the same pic, no?
-
- What say you Mr. Worley: could you put the JPEG archivers onto Hubcap
- so that people that do want to upload 24bit pics have the option of
- compressing them to a more reasonable size? Those of you that have
- more patience than I are more than welcome to upload monster 750k 24bit
- IFFs.. :) :)
-
- Ciao,
-
- Jeff
- --
- uubell@ccu.umanitba.ca
-
-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: JPEG..
- Date: 13 Oct 91 14:48 -0500
- From: "Jeff A. Bell" <uubell@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
-
- > I have some scripts I put together to make using the JPEG stuff easier,
- > but I don't have FTP access, so I'll post it to the mailing list if there
- > is any interest. You really need to go both ways (compress AND
- > decompress) to see what the results look like before you send them out.
- >
- > I really think this will become the new standard for TRANSFER of 24 bit
- > files, so let's break ground and start using it now!
-
- By all means, post your scripts please. Of course, people on the mailing
- list will still have to get a hold of the JPEG software, but..
-
- Exactly how many 24bit IFFs HAVE been posted to Hubcap? How many more
- would have been posted if you didn't have to spend an hour or so getting
- them there? IMHO, 24bit IFFs that have lost a bit through JPEG look much
- better than no 24bit IFFs at all, no? :)
-
- Ciao,
-
- Jeff
- --
- uubell@ccu.umanitoba.ca
-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Imagine 2.0!
- Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1991 13:50:46 -0600
- From: Brant Coghlan <brant@cs.ualberta.ca>
-
- >
- > > but it looks like the upgrade price will be around $ 100.00. Also if you
- >
-
- Comment from a long time Impulse customer.
-
- I will start with some conjecture and move on to facts. If 5,000
- people upgrade their Imagine's that will be $500,000 for Impulse less
- the true cost of the update kit (say $10 each) and their normal operating
- overhead, still leaves a fair chunk for development. This should mean
- a great improvement in the software and documentation, maybe even a
- video to show you the new features, but this is Impulse.
-
- Their track record to date is not very good. The Firecracker was
- offered and advertised months before it was ready and then the paint
- program was not finished. Their newsletter said that VoRecOne was going
- to be enhanced and that they had big plans for it, but the latest Gazzette
- said that no improvements to the software are underway. Until last week
- (when the Gazzette arrived) most Canadian customers were not informed
- of the upgrade to 1.1 (the previous Gazzette was not mailed to Canadians :-(
- ). Early Imagine purchasers were sent Beta-ware when the release version
- was delayed. Problems with trivial solutions were never fixed (eg. exiting
- show mode after clicking the Right Mouse Button). Silver users were
- promised an improved manual with Turbo Silver. TS users were promised
- a greatly improved manual with Imagine. In addition to these, no demo
- software has ever been released to allow customers to look at the products
- before buying (how many Impulse customers will order Foundation with
- only their word on its features?). A demo disk with examples is almost
- unheard-of.
-
- Lets hope that Impulse improves. I hope that Imagine 2.0 comes
- relatively bug free with a professionally written manual, a video on
- how to get started and new features, and a Foundation stand alone program
- offering hints and help. I will not be holding my breath though :-)
-
- I apologize for this diatribe. I get carried away every couple
- of years.
-
- Since I rarely post here, I would like to thank everyone here for
- the help and information they have provided. This mailing list is an
- invaluable resource for Imagine users. Keep it up everyone.
-
- -Brant Coghlan
- brant@cs.ualberta.ca Comp. Sci. Grad Student, Uof Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta
-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Another Fun Project
- Date: Sun, 13 Oct 91 14:44:23 PDT
- From: schur@ISI.EDU
-
- > Happy rendering everyone! ps- if anyone has a good idea for a candle
- > flame let me know!
-
- One of my students made a jack-o-lantern about two weeks ago, similar
- to what you described here. I should mention first of that the student
- who did this is none other than Sean Cunningham who was a prominent
- and oft contributor to this mailing list. For those of you wondering
- where he has been, he was accepted to Calarts this year and is busy
- working with Imagine and Journeyman in our lab. He doesn't currently
- have net access, but in the near future (a week or two) Calarts will
- be it's own node and Sean C will be back.
-
- At any rate, he made a jack-o-lantern and put a couple light orangeish
- lights inside the pumpkin, then had the lights change position for
- every frame. I made incredible light patterns and textures on the
- floor in front of the pumpkin that looked like a flickering candle.
- Don't forget to turn on "cast shadows" for the lights.
-
- =======================================================================
- Sean Schur USENET: schur@isi.edu
- Assistant Director SGI/Amiga/Media Lab Compuserve: 70731,1102
- Character Animation Department
- California Institute of the Arts
- =======================================================================
-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: DCTV
- Date: Sun, 13 Oct 91 20:14:02 GMT-0500
- From: Scott Matthew Krehbiel <scottk@hoggar.eng.umd.edu>
-
- I, for one, just got DCTV, and would love to see some images in 24-bit of
- some of your stuff. I think a DCTV directory would be a good idea.
-
- scottk@hoggar.eng.umd.edu
-
- ##
-
- Subject: power glove
- Date: Sun, 13 Oct 91 20:23:08 GMT-0500
- From: Scott Matthew Krehbiel <scottk@hoggar.eng.umd.edu>
-
- I would try the power glove idea, if I was a GURU, and had the Imagine
- Object format. I like to try writing my own object modifiers ( nowhere near
- the complexity of editors ). Is the Imagine object format released yet?
- Is it posted anywhere?
-
- Does anyone have the issue of A/C Tech that had code and connections for a
- power glove driver? It seems like all the 'stuff' is waiting, we just
- need some ambitious GURU ( who could become quite rich, if Impulse buys )
- to write the thing.
-
- Oh well, I'll just keep dreaming about going Computer Science in grad. school.
- -Scott
-
- ##
-
- Subject: JPEG available...
- Date: Mon, 14 Oct 91 1:27:41 MET
- From: d9hh@dtek.chalmers.se
-
- For anyone who is interested...
- The free JPEG group (I think this is what they are called, they dont know
- themselves what they are called :-) has released their first public
- version of their jpeg-package.
- FTP acess at: uunet.uu.net in directory /graphics/jpeg
- the file is called jpegsrc.v1.tar.Z
- It contains all sourcecode to compile a jpegtoppm and a ppmtojpeg program.
- Makefiles are available for amiga, lots of unix machines, pc etc etc.
-
-
- Henrik
-
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Powerglove & Amos 3-d
- Date: Sun, 13 Oct 91 15:37:57 CDT
- From: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Michael Linton)
-
- Is your computer accelerated? Since I got my A3000, Amos has not been working
- quite right. Do you know if there is a program in the 1.3 upgrade that will
- allow it to work properly on a 3000. I was thinking of getting Amos 3-D, but
- since Amos dosen't work right (sniff sniff), I think I'll have to wait until
- I can figure out how to get it to work. Thanks.
-
-
- --- (Michael Linton) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
- E-mail: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
- system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: lowres animation
- Date: Sun, 13 Oct 91 15:49:48 CDT
- From: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Michael Linton)
-
- rtaraz@wpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
-
- > >
- > It asked me if I wanted a looping animation, and then asked me if
- > it should delete the pictures after it is done,
- > then the screen flashes 2 or 3 times and then imagine start generating the
- > first frame.
- > So, I have no idea whats wrong.
- >
- > Any sugestions?
- >
- > rtaraz@wpi.wpi.edu
- >
- Hmmm, I just tried it and it didn't work. I thought for sure that's what you
- had to do. I'll play around with it some more tonight and see if I can figure
- out what to do.
-
- --- (Michael Linton) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
- E-mail: mikel@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
- system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Sort Problem
- Date: Mon, 14 Oct 91 11:19:57 EDT
- From: F. Felixberto <felix_f@chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu>
-
- > I took a disk and took a 45 degree section of it for the corner of some
- > 2d object. I have just the edges and I add 2 lines and flip the disk to
- > create a bottom edge. (I'm making a path for an E without the middle bar).
- > Now, I select all the points in order (I knew that from Silver) and selected
- > SORT. So I take another disk and extrude it along that path. Well, it looks
- > like I didn't sort it at all! ...
- > ...stuff deleted...
- > Worley suggested that I try it with sorting the edges. That changed it a l
- > but it starts at the 2nd point and goes on for a few points just fine and then
- > CHAOS! I read the manual and had no luck...
-
- The SORT does work but from what I can tell, all it does is rearrange the
- order in which points (edges, faces, etc.) will be selected using the
- Select Next, Select Prev commands.
-
- What you can do is delete all the edges and then add edges in the order in
- which you want the path to go. This shouldn't take more effort than trying
- to sort the edges you already have.
-
- felix
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Upgrade Comment
- Date: Sun, 13 Oct 91 18:17:01 EST
- From: martin@dexter.pub.uu.oz.au (Martin Gardiner)
-
- I hope that Imagine 2.0 has alot of new features, and a very good manual.
- Or I will have to go over to some other piece of software, and possibly
- hardware platform (while being one of Australia's best Amiga Professional
- programmers, IBM hardware is cheap for CPU, and the software is getting
- alot better).
-
- On the $100 upgrade, to stop people getting upset, especially if they just
- purchased a Imagine 1.x, make Imagine 2.0 cost $50-$100 more.
-
- PS. I can't wait to give it a try, $100 or $200 upgrade cost.
-
- Martin Gardiner (Programmer/Animator)
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Textures? Sure!
- Date: Mon, 14 Oct 91 13:41:31 PDT
- From: worley@updike.sri.com (Steve Worley)
-
- Everybody seems to love the Brodaz (sp?) textures. There are many more
- sites (well, at least one more) with textures.... Here's one that
- I've been using. It's at the FTP site incisal.rutgers.edu.
-
- It has many of the Brodaz textures: (in /brodaz)
-
- ahdh.tar
- beans.Z
- burlap.Z
- cork.Z
- fieldstone.Z
- grass.Z
- ice.Z
- marble.Z
- mica.Z
- paper.Z
- peb54.Z
- pebbles23.Z
- pellets.Z
- pig.Z
- raffia.Z
- reptile.Z
- ricepaper.Z
- seafan.Z
- straw.Z
- tree.Z
-
- And some unique ones in the /textures directory:
-
- bread.cvl.Z
- burlp1.cvl.Z
- cfood.cvl.Z
- floor.cvl.Z
- kitty.cvl
- paper.cvl.Z
- rug1.cvl.Z
- rug2.cvl.Z
- sponge.cvl.Z
- table.cvl.Z
- therm.cvl.Z
- towel.cvl.Z
- turf.cvl.Z
- wall.cvl.Z
- woodta.cvl.Z
-
-
- Enjoy!
-
- -Steve
-
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Steve Worley spworley@athena.mit.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- ##
-
- Subject: DCTV
- Date: Mon, 14 Oct 91 17:24:38 GMT-0500
- From: Scott Matthew Krehbiel <scottk@hoggar.eng.umd.edu>
-
- After writing that DCTV response, I finished reading my mail, and agree
- that 24-bit would be better. I also realized that it sounded like I
- was stepping on many peoples toes. Sorry, bad phrasing.
-
- -Scott
-
- ##
-
- Subject: jpeg "lharced" on hubcap
- Date: Mon, 14 Oct 91 21:02:41 EDT
- From: ddyer@hubcap.clemson.edu (Doug Dyer)
-
- OK,
- there is a JPEG directory on hubcap with jpeg LHARCED.
- there is a 24BIT directory in PICTUES.
-
- use them as you wish:)
-
- Doug "Wish I had 24-bit color" Dyer
- Clemson "A place where a guy hasn't 24-bit color OR a football team" University
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Has anyone tried this?
- Date: Tue, 15 Oct 91 12:08:53 JST
- From: manjit@nanko.digital.co.jp (Manjit Bedi)
-
- Since I got my DCTV, I have been playing with digitising things from the
- real world and I have been wondering about doing things with the images.
-
- For instance, I would like to do things to the images like slew the
- bits around to create a staggered image. Perhaps a simple diagram is
- in order:
-
- |||||||| \\\\\\
- |||||||| ----- > //////
- |||||||| \\\\\\
- |||||||| //////
- ^
- ^ |____ and do this to it
- |_____ imagine this is a picture
-
-
- Perhaps these things are possible in ADPro; I simply do not know not
- having it. I was wondering abour creating special lenses in Imagine
- and positioning them between the camera and the image mapped as a
- brush to a plane.
-
- Or another one is to make the image look likes it being viewed through
- a somewhat opaque plane of glass.
-
- I am curious to hear what others might have been doing with digitised
- images and renderiing software or whatever. I recall Steve Worley
- posted an interesting little project a long time ago about putting an
- image of a person on a sphere and animating it.
-
- Also, it looks like I am going back to Vancouver, Canada in November
- and I would like to stay on this list. I have seen a few Vancouver
- types on the list; could one of you contact and tell how getting the
- list.
-
-
- Manjit Bedi ( manjit@digital.co.jp)
-
- Here at this location until sometime in November.
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Refraction Index
- Date: Mon, 14 Oct 91 22:20:03 PDT
- From: schur@ISI.EDU
-
- A long time ago someone posted quite an extensive listing of indexes
- of refraction for all sorts of materials. It might not have been
- posted here, it might have been on one of the Amiga newsgroups.
- But does anyone have this list or know where I can get it?
-
- =======================================================================
- Sean Schur Usenet: schur@isi.edu
- Assistant Director Sgi/Amiga/Media Lab Compuserve: 70731,1102
- Character Animation Department
- California Institute Of The Arts
- =======================================================================
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Possibly goofy suggestion: a sub mailing list for Objects...
- Date: Tue, 15 Oct 91 13:34:32 JST
- From: manjit@nanko.digital.co.jp (Manjit Bedi)
-
- Being one without FTP access, I am envious of people who have it.
- Would it be worth while to set up a separate mailing list for objects,
- textures and such for those who do not have FTP access? The
- justification of such an endeavor depends on how many of us are on the
- list who do not have FTP access and would like such a thing. It is
- merely an idea that I would like to through for discussion.
- Admittedly, this list would have to be limited to things of reasonable
- size considering many of have limitations on the amount of mail we
- could handle. But wouldn't it be nice if someone created a nifty new
- texture and then sent it out on a list for distribution? Or perhaps in
- lieu of mailing list how about an alt.amiga.graphic.binaries to handle
- this. Occasionally, I have seen IFF files on alt.binaries.pictures.
- Perhaps more of us could post some of pix to there. Any thoughts on this?
-
- Manjit Bedi ( manjit@digital.co.jp)
-
- Here at this location until sometime in November.
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Imagine Gazette
- Date: Mon, 14 Oct 91 23:59 MST
- From: "Vax Headroom (Dave E Martin)" <DAVE@NET23.MIT.EDU>
-
- So, how often to these Imagine Gazettes come out? I have yet to
- recieve anything from impulse. Its been at least 4 months since I sent
- in my registration. When did the last Imagine Gazette come out?
-
- dmartin@cc.weber.edu
- dave@csulx.weber.edu
-
- I am not at .mit.edu (if the subject line says that.)
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: Refraction Index
- Date: Tue, 15 Oct 91 11:06:15 -0600
- From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL <hurtt@tramp.Colorado.EDU>
-
- In Mr. Worley's Glass tutorial he mentions a few:
-
- Air 1.02
- Ice 1.309
- Alcohol 1.329
- Water 1.333
- Glass 1.50
- Quartz & Salt 1.644
- Diamond 2.417
-
- Or if you are abmitous you can sift thru the CRC Handbook for Physics
- (I think, maybe Chemistry). Theres tons listed, but most are not in common
- names. 'Hmm, I want that plane to have the refraction of a 2,2 dimethyl 1
- cyclohexane.' :-)
-
- Chris
- hurtt@tramp.colorado.edu
-
- ##
-
- Subject: re: Imagine Gazette
- Date: Tue, 15 Oct 91 10:36:08 PDT
- From: Mark Davis <davis@soomee.enet.dec.com>
-
- I think it is called the Impulse gazette. I received mine on
- Thursday, in Seattle.
-
- mark
-
- ##
-
- Subject: re: Imagine Gazette
- Date: Tue, 15 Oct 91 10:11:28 PDT
- From: "Jim Lange" <jlange@us.oracle.com>
-
- What exacly is 'The Imagine Gazette'? Is it published by Impulse? I upgraded
- from Turbo Silver to Imagine and therefore have been a registered user for
- several months and I have never seen one. I have received the Impulse
- newsletter periodically, but not recently.
-
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Jim Lange jlange@us.oracle.com
- Oracle Corporation {uunet,apple,hplabs}!oracle!jlange
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- ##
-
- Subject: re: Imagine Gazette
- Date: Wed, 16 Oct 91 12:41:01 EDT
- From: F. Felixberto <felix_f@chrysanthemum.cs.odu.edu>
-
- The Imagine Gazette is the same thing as the Impulse newsletter, I got mine
- yesterday. I guess they just changed the name.
-
- felix
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: DCTV Directory at Hubcap?
- Date: Sun, 13 Oct 91 19:05:35 CST
- From: shrapnel!rtillery (Rick Tillery)
-
- :I would vote *not* to start a DCTV directory on Hubcap. It would
- :seem to me that we would all be better served if the images were
- :stored in 24-bit format. In this way we can all convert them to the
- :format of our own choice without the limitations placed on images
- :that are stored in the DCTV format.
- :
- :If images are in DCTV format, a large percentage of your audience is
- :going to be out-of-luck when it comes to viewing potentially
- :wonderful images.
-
- I second that. Let's use the JPEG format to get the most from 24 bits.
- The images will not lose any data as they do through DCTV, and they are
- usually smaller than DCTV images.
-
- I'll uuencode and post the software and some easy scripts if you all
- agree. (sorry, I don't have FTP access)
-
- I'm leaving in less than three weeks, so I may only have access to this
- list through Portal. My home machine is easier, so act now!
-
- /-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
- | Rick Tillery @uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu:occrsh!shrapnel!rtillery |
- | Rick_-_Tillery@cup.portal.com |
- | |
- | "I'd rather be ray-tracing...and with my multitasking Amiga, I AM!!!" |
- | ======= Always willing to trade 24 bit, JPEG, and/or GIF pics ====== |
- \-----------------------------------------------------------------------/
-
- ##
-
- Subject: Re: DCTV directory at Hubcap..
- Date: Sun, 13 Oct 91 19:13:30 CST
- From: shrapnel!rtillery (Rick Tillery)
-
- :> Hmmm. Anyone for a JPEG compressor? T'would solve this dilemma
- :> quite nicely, IMHO.. :)
- :
- :JPEG has it's problems also. I don't know if I would go for that
- :based on the scarcity of JPEG decompression software available for
- :the Amiga.
-
- No problem. The free software works fantastic, and it's compatible with
- ADPro's JPEG module (the beta version that Harv Laser is using). It has
- a 100% mode that shrinks images from 5 to 10 times, and with a little
- image loss (I'm picky, but many images don't need the 100% mode) you can
- get compression to 15 or 20 times. I've got several 60K 768x480 images
- that look fine. That amounts to 18 times.
-
- Any interest? Huh? :-)
-
- /-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
- | Rick Tillery @uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu:occrsh!shrapnel!rtillery |
- | Rick_-_Tillery@cup.portal.com |
- | |
- | "I'd rather be ray-tracing...and with my multitasking Amiga, I AM!!!" |
- | ======= Always willing to trade 24 bit, JPEG, and/or GIF pics ====== |
- \-----------------------------------------------------------------------/
-
- ##
-
- Subject: JPEG source problem
- Date: Mon, 14 Oct 91 19:25:34 EET
- From: Juha Kallioinen <s37804r@puukko.hut.fi>
-
- Has anyone got those sources for the JPEG-converters to compile ? I've
- got SAS/C 5.10 and with the included makefile (apparently for MANX) it
- doesn't compile at all.. and with little fiddling (with the compiler and
- linker names :) ) I just managed to get a lot of errors and failed compiles..
-
- So, would some guru out there compile the sources for us not-so-gurus out
- here :)
-
- --
- o------------------------o-----o-------------------------------------------o
- | s37804r@puukko.hut.fi / __ |_______/ Tomorrow will be canceled \_______|
- | Juha Kallioinen / __/// | \ due to lack of interest. / |
- o---------------------o \\X/ o-------------------------------------------o
-
- ##
-
- Subject: brush maps
- Date: Wed, 16 Oct 91 20:08:26 EDT
- From: dan@cs.pitt.edu (Dan Drake)
-
- Well, her is another one of the infamous "brush mapping" questions :-)
-
- I created a sphere (for a planet), and made a brush in DPAINTIII that
- was a large square, (lets say 320x300), that had a blue background, and
- white clouds on top. The idea was to wrap this brush around the sphere, and
- then as the planet rotates, the clouds will look like they are moving and
- swirling. The only hang up is that it never comes out even remotely close
- to what I want. I can only see the bottom of the planet, and the clouds are
- very very small. All of the colors are a shade of dark puke yellow.
- I got this far following the tutorials in the 91 compendium. I moved the
- axis of the brush down to the bottom of the front view, then stretched it
- locally to the top. Is the move supposed to be in local mode too? I am
- rendering in scan-line mode as this is going to be a long anim. Do maps
- work in scan-line? Maybe I can get what I want through the camo texture?
- Has anyone tried this yet?
-
- BTW: I have also created a pretty neat lamp by spinning a outline, then
- putting a light inside of the bell shaped housing. I had a lamp shining
- down on a chess board with a silver ball on it. The results were what you
- would expect them to be to.
-
- dan.
-